Kids on leashes

[guy n. cognito]

Damn.

Two weeks ago, my son, daughter and I spent about an hour drawing flowers and dinosaurs on the sidewalk in front of my house. If I would have know how close to death we really were, I would have required leashes.....and helmets.

 

[aborgman]

Damn.

Two weeks ago, my son, daughter and I spent about an hour drawing flowers and dinosaurs on the sidewalk in front of my house. If I would have know how close to death we really were, I would have required leashes.....and helmets.

Are your kids 2-3 years old?

Does your road regularly have cars driving 50+ mph on it?

Horses for courses folks.

 

[EricF]

...if your child requires constant control, then you have failed as a parent.

What seems to be missing from the argument is any factor about the unique personality and needs of the individual child. Every kid is different (my own two daughters are all the example I need). Some need more control/restraint than others - for their own safety, and for the safety of others. Having to provide constant control, if the child/situation require it, is not a parenting failire. Not adapting to your kid's individual needs is a parenting failure.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Are your kids 2-3 years old?

Does your road regularly have cars driving 50+ mph on it?

Horses for courses folks.

Yes and no. Maybe 30-35 mph tops, which everyone knows won't kill a kid ....

 

[tZer]

If you're willing to take that risk with your kids, that's up to you. I know my kids, and I know how they like to challenge the limits of their abilities. Sometimes they fall and get hurt. A helmet is a cheap and easy way to significantly reduce the chances of a head injury.

Granted, my friends and I didn't wear helmets when riding around the neighborhood growing up, and most of us got lucky. Most of us. One kid ended up with a head injury that changed his life.

My kids don't get on a bike, scooter, or skateboard without a helmet. Period.

As someone who has been a serious cyclist for a very long time (including 10+ years of racing), I still don't leave my driveway without a helmet on my head. I trust my skills on a bike. I don't trust the skills of the driver in the car coming up behind me.

You, my friend, both missed the sarcasm and the substance of the rest of my posts. I too make my kids wear helmets when they ride their bikes - even around our ulta-safe, virtually traffic-free cul-de-sac. I make their friends wear one too - even if their parents don't require it when they are at my house riding.

No worries, though.

Some parents may suck and use a leash because of it. Some parents may be great and use a leash for reasons others don't fully understand or appreciate. But the use of a perfectly harmless and effective, albeit unusual child restraint in some circumstances is not always a parental cop-out - as some here are asserting.

 

[EricF]

You, my friend, both missed the sarcasm and the substance of the rest of my posts. I too make my kids wear helmets when they ride their bikes - even around our ulta-safe, virtually traffic-free cul-de-sac. I make their friends wear one too - even if their parents don't require it when they are at my house riding.

No worries, though.

Some parents may suck and use a leash because of it. Some parents may be great and use a leash for reasons others don't fully understand or appreciate. But the use of a perfectly harmless and effective, albeit unusual child restraint in some circumstances is not always a parental cop-out - as some here are asserting.

I did, indeed, miss the sarcasm. I tend to be a bit sensitive about bike/helmet issues.

 

[macaroni tony]

I did, indeed, miss the sarcasm. I tend to be a bit sensitive about bike/helmet issues.

Out of curiosity, is this largely because of your friend who had his head injury?

 

[tZer]

I did, indeed, miss the sarcasm. I tend to be a bit sensitive about bike/helmet issues.

I know and again - no worries, man. I've gone over the bars enough to know that a skid lid is a necessity - and I've also bolted into a parking lot as a very young child and almost been maimed by a car as a kid right in front of my mom who was just seconds before holding my hand, like a good, concerned parent should.

Shortly after that incident she got a harness and leash because apparently my mom's parenting skill were not up to snuff - as some here would have you believe. Really... There's no way she would do something like that because she saw a very real reason that it might help to keep me alive or something - nah - poor parenting - that's all that can be... (more sarcasm, BTW)

 

[EricF]

Out of curiosity, is this largely because of your friend who had his head injury?

More so because a helmet saved the life of my father when I was 12. He was riding home from work (as he did daily) and was struck from behind by a car. If not for the fact that he was wearing a helmet (an odd thing for a cyclist to do 30 years ago), I would have lost my father right then and there.

I've also been off my own bike at high speed and shattered my helmet more than once. Each time, I got up, picked up the pieces, and walked away without anything worse than a mild headache.

The injury to my childhood friend was an unfortunate example that kids can get hurt, too.

 

[macaroni tony]

More so because a helmet saved the life of my father when I was 12. He was riding home from work (as he did daily) and was struck from behind by a car. If not for the fact that he was wearing a helmet (an odd thing for a cyclist to do 30 years ago), I would have lost my father right then and there.

I've also been off my own bike at high speed and shattered my helmet more than once. Each time, I got up, picked up the pieces, and walked away without anything worse than a mild headache.

The injury to my childhood friend was an unfortunate example that kids can get hurt, too.

Right on. Good for your dad!

I'm also pretty sensitive when it comes to matters of head injury, because of my brother's condition.

 

[hbarcat]

1) It's very easy to ignore any other relevant reasons why a parent my use a tether or leash to protect their child and make sweeping statements that once again characterize parents who use them as inept or shirking their duties as teachers and guardians of their children.

I'll play the 'flip' game and cite that a parent whose child has wandered off - or bolted into a dangerous situation more than a couple times regardless of being taught the inherent dangers of such actions and who doesn't opt for some mechanism, like a leash in such dangerous situations, is equally negligent.

Perhpas you missed the part of my post where I stated there are children who are the exception and my criticism of the use of a leash wasn't directed at them.

2) "..But when they eventually do, we go and get them..." Well - let's just hope that you are able to find them and that they are not smeared on the parking lot when you do.

Such caviler attitudes about how great a parent you might think you are could also be considered negligent. "I taught my kid not to do that - and most of the time, they obeyed. I never thought my great teachings and parenting skills might simply not be enough to protect them..."

I am certainly not advocating such a restraint as a SUBSTITUTE for good parenting - as many here are trying to frame it - I, and others, are pointing out that there are circumstances where it is a viable solution to a very real parenting need. It might also be a reaction to a close call - but it is not necessarily an indication of bad parenting. Like anything - it can be used badly and I'll agree that on the surface it can appear to be less than ideal - even demeaning. But leaping to the conclusion that it's indicative of a parent who is less than able to be a parent is simply wrong.

While some may not appreciate the difference, I was very careful to frame my criticism as strictly the negative consequences from the use of a leash and to refrain from characterizing the parents who use leashes to be lazy, incompetent or otherwise bad parents. I don't believe they are at all and it's clear to me that a lot of the bad feelings in this thread are coming from those parents who believe they are being insulted and demeaned. That is just not the case, at least not coming from me.

Let me expand a little on why I said what I did about the use of leashes having negative consequences. The fact is, you can't keep your kids safe from all harm and there are many ways your children can be injured or killed out in public, in your car, at school or even at home. Good parents protect their kids from hazard because that's what good parents do. Bad parents neglect their kids and let them take their chances at life's lottery without the benefit of adult guidance.

This is obvious, but the reality is that nearly every good, attentive and caring parent must make some kind of practical determination about where to balance the amount of protection they provide to their kids and letting them get a few cuts and bruises as a valuable learning lesson. Overly protective parents who compulsively hover over their children so they absolutely minimize the chances that their kids get hurt are doing a disservice to their kids and are greatly increasing the chances that thier children will grow up to be less than capable of handling themselves with assurance in times of stress or danger.

I truly believe this for rational reasons and I'm not saying this because I want to pick on other parents or even to claim some kind of superior parenting skills for myself. In fact, I freely admit to being an inadequate parent to my (now adult) daughter in a lot of ways. But that's not related to the topic of this thread. It's my opinion that letting your kids take calculated risks is beneficial to them as adults because of the cuts and bruises that they learn from as children. These risks include the possiblity of serious injury or death. That's part of life and you can't escape it.

Every parent makes up their mind on how much risk to let their kids take and some parents choose the extreme and try to protect their children from every possible risk. I simply disagree with that approach but it's not my place to tell them they're wrong.

 

[fmoore200]

The only time we ever used one with either of our children was when we took our oldest son to Yellowstone at age 2.

It was the only way we felt safe enough to let the kid out of our arms anywhere around thermal features or large drop offs - areas where even a second of inattention would easily result in death.

Generally I don't care for them, but tonight I saw a reason why they can be useful; in the same way as mentioned above.

I was dropping off at my last stop in flushing tonight and ss I'm pulling out I see a kid lurch towards the bus. Luckily his mother pulled back on the backpack leash or the kid could have been seriously hurt or worse. Also I could have been given a 3 - 5 day suspension.. so it worked out for both of us...

 

[runmikeyrun]

I've been a medic 16 years and that sickens me to the core. I sure as hell would have written every word of that in my run report and let the nurse/doctor at the hospital know to get a social worker and/or police involved. As medical professionals we are obligated to report ANY suspected abuse (child or elder) to the nurse or doctor taking report from us at the hospital. They are then obligated to get a hospital social worker involved. The social workers make the decision to call the local child protective services and/or police to take care of the situation if they feel it is necessary. If they feel there is an immediate safety concern with the abused person they will place the child in a temporary facility until they sort things out with the parents/guardian.

You want to fill out an incident report at work if they have them. Be honest, write neatly and with proper spelling/grammar. Don't use "I think" statements, write everything exactly as you saw it. Use quotation marks around statements the mother or father said. The more evidence there is against slimeballs like that mother the easier it is to convict them of a crime in court.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Perhpas you missed the part of my post where I stated there are children who are the exception and my criticism of the use of a leash wasn't directed at them.



While some may not appreciate the difference, I was very careful to frame my criticism as strictly the negative consequences from the use of a leash and to refrain from characterizing the parents who use leashes to be lazy, incompetent or otherwise bad parents. I don't believe they are at all and it's clear to me that a lot of the bad feelings in this thread are coming from those parents who believe they are being insulted and demeaned. That is just not the case, at least not coming from me.

Let me expand a little on why I said what I did about the use of leashes having negative consequences. The fact is, you can't keep your kids safe from all harm and there are many ways your children can be injured or killed out in public, in your car, at school or even at home. Good parents protect their kids from hazard because that's what good parents do. Bad parents neglect their kids and let them take their chances at life's lottery without the benefit of adult guidance.

This is obvious, but the reality is that nearly every good, attentive and caring parent must make some kind of practical determination about where to balance the amount of protection they provide to their kids and letting them get a few cuts and bruises as a valuable learning lesson. Overly protective parents who compulsively hover over their children so they absolutely minimize the chances that their kids get hurt are doing a disservice to their kids and are greatly increasing the chances that thier children will grow up to be less than capable of handling themselves with assurance in times of stress or danger.

I truly believe this for rational reasons and I'm not saying this because I want to pick on other parents or even to claim some kind of superior parenting skills for myself. In fact, I freely admit to being an inadequate parent to my (now adult) daughter in a lot of ways. But that's not related to the topic of this thread. It's my opinion that letting your kids take calculated risks is beneficial to them as adults because of the cuts and bruises that they learn from as children. These risks include the possiblity of serious injury or death. That's part of life and you can't escape it.

Every parent makes up their mind on how much risk to let their kids take and some parents choose the extreme and try to protect their children from every possible risk. I simply disagree with that approach but it's not my place to tell them they're wrong.

That's pretty much how I feel too. Although, it never even seriously gave it a second thought. My wife and I weren't going to do it, and it was as simple as that. BUT we were also basing our decision on the nature of our own child. Still, your belief is pretty much parallel to how we felt about it. Of course, we taught our boy to hold our hand in the parking lot, never cross the street, or enter the parking lot with out us, and even when he has permission, he needs to still look for himself. That includes when we ride bikes on the streets in our neighborhood. This was sufficient for him and he listens. We had a couple of scares, but nothing life threatening like what tZer described, so maybe our perspective was a little different in regards to safety. In regards to crowds, or dangerous locations, we simply avoided those places until we felt our son, and ourselves had enough control of him. I've found that I'm much more of a nervous nelly in dangerous places though, but my boy has confidence in his actions even when he's listening and following my directions. He can handle it. It's because of this, we have swum across swift rivers together, and frequently surf together.

 

[tZer]

Perhpas you missed the part of my post where I stated there are children who are the exception and my criticism of the use of a leash wasn't directed at them.



While some may not appreciate the difference, I was very careful to frame my criticism as strictly the negative consequences from the use of a leash and to refrain from characterizing the parents who use leashes to be lazy, incompetent or otherwise bad parents. I don't believe they are at all and it's clear to me that a lot of the bad feelings in this thread are coming from those parents who believe they are being insulted and demeaned. That is just not the case, at least not coming from me.

Let me expand a little on why I said what I did about the use of leashes having negative consequences. The fact is, you can't keep your kids safe from all harm and there are many ways your children can be injured or killed out in public, in your car, at school or even at home. Good parents protect their kids from hazard because that's what good parents do. Bad parents neglect their kids and let them take their chances at life's lottery without the benefit of adult guidance.

This is obvious, but the reality is that nearly every good, attentive and caring parent must make some kind of practical determination about where to balance the amount of protection they provide to their kids and letting them get a few cuts and bruises as a valuable learning lesson. Overly protective parents who compulsively hover over their children so they absolutely minimize the chances that their kids get hurt are doing a disservice to their kids and are greatly increasing the chances that thier children will grow up to be less than capable of handling themselves with assurance in times of stress or danger.

I truly believe this for rational reasons and I'm not saying this because I want to pick on other parents or even to claim some kind of superior parenting skills for myself. In fact, I freely admit to being an inadequate parent to my (now adult) daughter in a lot of ways. But that's not related to the topic of this thread. It's my opinion that letting your kids take calculated risks is beneficial to them as adults because of the cuts and bruises that they learn from as children. These risks include the possiblity of serious injury or death. That's part of life and you can't escape it.

Every parent makes up their mind on how much risk to let their kids take and some parents choose the extreme and try to protect their children from every possible risk. I simply disagree with that approach but it's not my place to tell them they're wrong.

Excellent post - and you are absolutely right, I too got onto a high horse and was riding with the wind.

I see your point - that there really is no way to protect your children from everything that might possibly happen to them - and using things like a leash may actually work against the goal of teaching them to pay attention.

Point taken. I was obviously reacting the the snap judgment being leveled by so many who are so quick to assume a parent using such things is automatically too lazy to teach their kids such necessary life lessons - and hell-bent on using my own experience as proof that such blanket statements are not true.

I appreciate your restraint. Something I could use a little of. Lesson learned... Now would someone take this damn leash offa me, please?!

 

[fhm555]

When I was 5~6 years old we lived in Germany and kids on leashes in the hands of the local adult population was common enough my mom used it as a threat to get me to mind. I dreaded the idea enough to usually get with the program whenever she mentioned what a good idea a harness might be for me.

I don't remember any stories about injury associated with them, but I can see where it could easily happen if a child was unruly or the parent inattentive.

If anything, it forces a parent to pay more attention to their child for no other reason than to avoid injury to their child from being harnessed.

I'd venture to say injury would most likely result from inattention on the adult's part.

 

[Relic]

Point taken.I was obviously reacting the the snap judgment being leveled by so many who are so quick to assume a parent using such things is automatically too lazy to teach their kids such necessary life lessons - and hell-bent on using my own experience as proof that such blanket statements are not true.

Yeah same here. I have no disdain or negative comment for parents who chose not to use a leash or harness. Their choice and I'm totally fine with that. Good parents are good parents whether they feel the need to use the leash or not.

That said, this whole thread for me at least has been about the silliness of automatically judging and labeling someone a "bad parent" just because they are seen using one. There's just something very block-headed about that to me - the kid may have developmental/behavioral issues, or there may be any number of issues involved that the person doing the "judging" may have no clue about, yet, there it is - "bad parent". How the hell would someone truly know who is a bad parent just by a quick glance
That to me sums up my involvement in this thread. As far as whether a leash is a good idea or bad idea - we can argue that ad infinitum as there really is no right or wrong answer.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Yeah same here. I have no disdain or negative comment for parents who chose not to use a leash or harness. Their choice and I'm totally fine with that. Good parents are good parents whether they feel the need to use the leash or not.

That said, this whole thread for me at least has been about the silliness of automatically judging and labeling someone a "bad parent" just because they are seen using one. There's just something very block-headed about that to me - the kid may have developmental/behavioral issues, or there may be any number of issues involved that the person doing the "judging" may have no clue about, yet, there it is - "bad parent". How the hell would someone truly know who is a bad parent just by a quick glance
That to me sums up my involvement in this thread. As far as whether a leash is a good idea or bad idea - we can argue that ad infinitum as there really is no right or wrong answer.

I agree. Let's all go get a beer now.

 

[tZer]

That said, this whole thread for me at least has been about the silliness of automatically judging and labeling...

That sums it up for me. While I obviously had my own experience to draw from that proved that the "leash = bad parenting" automatic conclusion false, when BartmanPDX presented his story, that wrapped it up tight. Anyone jumping to any conclusion other than "Without knowing more, I just don't know" was one toke over the line.

But I'll admit that in my zeal to push this point of view I may have skimmed a few posts that were not really trying to label parents outright based solely on the use of a leash and as a result was guilty of exactly what I was complaining about.

I'll buy the first round.

 

[Relic]

I agree. Let's all go get a beer now.

That sums it up for me. While I obviously had my own experience to draw from that proved that the "leash = bad parenting" automatic conclusion false, when BartmanPDX presented his story, that wrapped it up tight. Anyone jumping to any conclusion other than "Without knowing more, I just don't know" was one toke over the line.

But I'll admit that in my zeal to push this point of view I may have skimmed a few posts that were not really trying to label parents outright based solely on the use of a leash and as a result was guilty of exactly what I was complaining about.

I'll buy the first round.

aight. We done.
You guys are invited to Jersey for beers, I'll buy. Bring boats