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KKK license plate???
- Thread starter chi-town_mike
- Start date
Malcolm X made speeches tha pissed off lots of whites. Nathan Bedford Forrest actually killed lots of black people during and after the Civil War. I am not in favor of him getting a license plate, but given the current political atmosphere, it would not surprise me if he got one.
The fact remains that whether he denounced the KKK or not, he helped create a terrorist organization that undermined the objectives of the US government after the Civil War, and that was active in denying full citizenship rights for African Americans, who were 40% of the South's population, and the majority in South Carolina, Mississippi, and Louisiana.
I have no fondness for any Confederate leaders, but I would hope that at least modern Confederate admirers could draw a line at people who were truly loyal to America after the war was over, and not hold up people who killed the weak in masks under cover of night for their political advantage.
I didn't see anything that said he killed any black people, other than coincidentally in the course of the war. If I am wrong, I wouldn't mind seeing a source. If the guy murdered people, regardless of color I can definitely see the outrage. If he didn't, then he isn't different than Malcolm in that respect. Malcolm X was a racist who later regretted his racism, was he not?
Floyd Eye said:
+1
Also, if he was a Lieutenant General then that would mean he probably commanded some black soldiers as well, since some fought for the Confederates.
But, if he did murder African Americans and was a leader of the KKK then it wouldn't be a good idea to commemorate him. If he wasn't/didn't then it should be ok in my opinion.
No doubt the guy spent some time as a racist. It is pretty apparent he was in the KKK ( although there is no proof he was ever a grandmaster or whatever it is). It is also apparent, from his own last public speech that he believed he was wrong and he regretted his racism. It is also apparent that there was never any conclusive proof that he murdered surrendered troops ( black AND white) at Fort Willow. I wonder what murders Dr. Cheese is referring to?
FWIW, I never heard of this guy before this thread, so I don't know if any proof exists that he murdered anyone. That's why I'm asking for a source.
FWIW, I never heard of this guy before this thread, so I don't know if any proof exists that he murdered anyone. That's why I'm asking for a source.
He had over 400 black Union captives killed in Henning, TN.
As a founder of the KKK, he facilitated murder and terrorism whether he killed with his own hand or helped others kill. Afterall, how many people has Osama bin Laden personally killed in a terrorist attack (not when he was an active mujahadeen)? How many Jews did Hitler personally GAS? Right now, Charles Taylor is on trial for war crimes although he never shot a gun or swang a machete in Sierra Leone.
First, I already addressed the Fort Willow thing and like I said, there is no conclusive proof that those union soldiers had surrendered ( Unless you have a link for me?) And they weren't all black.
Second, if you look at the WIKI page I linked, it says he disassociated himself from the KKK when they started advocating violence.
The situation in Antebellum Louisana was exceptional because for most of its history, Louisana was not an English speaking territory. Because of that cultural difference, mixed people in Southern Louisiana were allowed a status between black and white, and were able to gain property, including slaves, in numbers that were far greater than in other regions of the South. The "Colored Confederates" did not see themselves as Black anymore than many brownskinned Domincans or Venzuelans see themselves as black today.
Of equal importance was the fact that when the war was over, former mixed race slave owners found themselves discriminated against and relegated to the status of blacks. It is not an accident that Plessy, in the Plessy vs. Ferguson case that established segregation, was a man from Louisiana fair enough to pass for white.
As for the KKK trying to "peacefully" convince blacks to accept a lower status after the war, that is pretty silly on its face. I'm a historian, but I'm no Civil War expert, I do know that there are thousands of books and articles that are much less sympathetic to the confederate side than the material that has cited in this thread. To get any idea of how blacks were treated immediately after the war, one can look up Black Codes. No one who has been given freedom would ever willingly submit to such treatment. The idea that KKK was ever non-violent, is wishful thinking.
Of equal importance was the fact that when the war was over, former mixed race slave owners found themselves discriminated against and relegated to the status of blacks. It is not an accident that Plessy, in the Plessy vs. Ferguson case that established segregation, was a man from Louisiana fair enough to pass for white.
As for the KKK trying to "peacefully" convince blacks to accept a lower status after the war, that is pretty silly on its face. I'm a historian, but I'm no Civil War expert, I do know that there are thousands of books and articles that are much less sympathetic to the confederate side than the material that has cited in this thread. To get any idea of how blacks were treated immediately after the war, one can look up Black Codes. No one who has been given freedom would ever willingly submit to such treatment. The idea that KKK was ever non-violent, is wishful thinking.
No, I wouldn't object. Why would I? Like you pointed out, this IS America.
I said I thought a state sponsored license plate honoring NBF is stupid. So you won't see one on my car.
But Liberace license plates should be mandatory.
Liberace and Malcom X in confederate uniforms making out at the podium of a Nation Of Islam conference. That's what we need.
I said I thought a state sponsored license plate honoring NBF is stupid. So you won't see one on my car.
But Liberace license plates should be mandatory.
Liberace and Malcom X in confederate uniforms making out at the podium of a Nation Of Islam conference. That's what we need.
A few years ago, when I was living in Indianapolis, I got behind a young black dude driving a Focus, or some such vehicle. His plate read.... and it took me a second for it to "click" what it was. It read: 9MM 4YT
Pretty ballsy, especially when he was in about the "whitest" part of town(Carmel).
Pretty clever, though.
Pretty ballsy, especially when he was in about the "whitest" part of town(Carmel).
Pretty clever, though.
as i understand it, the Sons of Confederate Veterans organization (who want the plate) have had trouble in the past with members of their ranks also being in race hate groups. i think their official line is 'moderate'.
oh and yeah, no plate for that guy pls k thx.
oh and yeah, no plate for that guy pls k thx.
Not familiar with him, but it does seem to be "he may have been . . ." as opposed to "he was".
Though you guys were all about free speech etc, whether you like it or not?
Think about it, you see someone with this plate, and you know where to start firing!
Though you guys were all about free speech etc, whether you like it or not?
Think about it, you see someone with this plate, and you know where to start firing!
Yeah. I just quoted myself. It is a perfect fit here. I am neither for, nor against this guy being commemorated on a state-issued plate. But, I am all for making douchebags and dolts easily identified. Same principle I use around here with the John Deere, camo, and the little deer hunting stickers all over the vehicles. They are all indicators that let you know when to say words like "gyros" incorrectly, so as to be understood.
D
Disclaimers:
1) I recognize that the KKK is a racist and has historically been violent and murderous. I have no love or respect for them and I hope that justice prevails against them.
2) I take the Sons of Confederate Veterans to task for their use of the "Stars and Bars", a battle flag, instead of one of the first, second, or third flag of the Confederacy. I think they are trying to stir the pot of racism by using that flag instead of a historically correct one. (As an aside, I'd venture that most of the people who are driven into a frenzy at the sight of the "stars and bars" battle flag wouldn't even recognize 2 of the three flags of the Confederacy). At any rate, I find it difficult to accept their claims that they are solely honoring Confederate veterans and have no trace of racism in their hearts.
3) I was born and raised in Alabama, I live in Alabama, and I happen to be white, so there's nothing I can say or do that will convince some of you that I don't have Klan robes hanging in my closet.
It is important to note that the KKK at its inception was not the KKK of modern times. It was certainly a "good 'ol boys" club for ex-confederate officers. However, most hear that Forrest was an early member of the KKK and that's it. He probably wasn't the founder, no proof he was a grand wizard. And he walked away from it when he became radical. How many have heard the story of his speech and acceptance of the bouquet from the black woman? That is SO conveniently forgotten (or ignored). Many of you say you have never heard of him, but once you do, you are innundated with misinformation that he was the founder and grand wizard and spent every waking moment hanging black people, that's what every klansman since its inception does, right? Don't get me wrong, the Klan quickly morphed into a racist organization. But to saddle Forrest with every bit of evil of 150 years of Klan history is not fair. But it makes a good story for those to whom the truth and fairness is less important than an opportunity to point and shout racist and perpetuate racial disharmony.
Here you go, think about this:
Shirley Sherrod: Acts in a racist way, sees her error, apologizes and repents = Hero
Nathan Bedford Forrest joins the Klan, Klan goes bad, he quits, makes speeches promoting reconciliation of the races, including speeches to black audiences (make no mistake of the significance of this, he surely caught TONS of flack for this). And what do the re-writers of history say?
Nathan Bedford Forrest = Villain
Double standard. Hands down.
If you want to talk about flaming racist civil war generals, let's talk about Willimam Tecumseh Sherman.
1) I recognize that the KKK is a racist and has historically been violent and murderous. I have no love or respect for them and I hope that justice prevails against them.
2) I take the Sons of Confederate Veterans to task for their use of the "Stars and Bars", a battle flag, instead of one of the first, second, or third flag of the Confederacy. I think they are trying to stir the pot of racism by using that flag instead of a historically correct one. (As an aside, I'd venture that most of the people who are driven into a frenzy at the sight of the "stars and bars" battle flag wouldn't even recognize 2 of the three flags of the Confederacy). At any rate, I find it difficult to accept their claims that they are solely honoring Confederate veterans and have no trace of racism in their hearts.
3) I was born and raised in Alabama, I live in Alabama, and I happen to be white, so there's nothing I can say or do that will convince some of you that I don't have Klan robes hanging in my closet.
It is important to note that the KKK at its inception was not the KKK of modern times. It was certainly a "good 'ol boys" club for ex-confederate officers. However, most hear that Forrest was an early member of the KKK and that's it. He probably wasn't the founder, no proof he was a grand wizard. And he walked away from it when he became radical. How many have heard the story of his speech and acceptance of the bouquet from the black woman? That is SO conveniently forgotten (or ignored). Many of you say you have never heard of him, but once you do, you are innundated with misinformation that he was the founder and grand wizard and spent every waking moment hanging black people, that's what every klansman since its inception does, right? Don't get me wrong, the Klan quickly morphed into a racist organization. But to saddle Forrest with every bit of evil of 150 years of Klan history is not fair. But it makes a good story for those to whom the truth and fairness is less important than an opportunity to point and shout racist and perpetuate racial disharmony.
Here you go, think about this:
Shirley Sherrod: Acts in a racist way, sees her error, apologizes and repents = Hero
Nathan Bedford Forrest joins the Klan, Klan goes bad, he quits, makes speeches promoting reconciliation of the races, including speeches to black audiences (make no mistake of the significance of this, he surely caught TONS of flack for this). And what do the re-writers of history say?
Nathan Bedford Forrest = Villain
Double standard. Hands down.
If you want to talk about flaming racist civil war generals, let's talk about Willimam Tecumseh Sherman.
I don't think 90% of the American population knows about the stars and bars. They usually think of the "Stainless Banner" when they think confederate flag. Much more recognizable.
