• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Know your songs by heart?

Diddywah

Diddywah

Supporting Member
Sep 26, 2014
660
1,521
Norway
#1
In my main band both keyboard players always use charts, while the guitarist and I both play without. We do Steely Dan, Dobbie and that kind of 70's stuff.
I am feeling that we could be more focused and have more fun if they could get their eyes up from that paper pile.
Maybe its because they are on their asses behind a stack of keys and have plenty of space for charts, while us string players are up on our feet moving around?
What do you guys think?
Should we just remove their crutches and liberate them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveCS
#2
Unless he's going to use a keytar, he's planted in his post anyway. A lot would have to do with the keyboardist's training; do they know how to jam to a chord progression rather than read sheet music? Some don't. Three hours worth of music for a cover gig is a lot to memorize note-for-note if you don't jam. I had an interesting experience some years ago, as part of an impromptu combo that played music under a poetry reading. It was me on bass, a guitarist, a harpist, and a pair of flautists. We were shown the poetry that would be read. Me, the guitarist, and - interestingly - the harpist proceeded to jam and work out some ideas to accompany. The flautists went home and picked some sheet music out of their files. They literally had no idea how to play along with what the rest of us were doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johnny Crab and bebi
#4
Over the years, I’ve played hundreds of songs via memory and a sh#t ton of practice. Doing session work, I’ll be asked to learn 8 songs for a record release or something, then another artist wants me to learn another set, then all the sudden I’ve got to get familiar with Chet Atkins out of the blue. It’s ridiculously taxing, but you get used to it out of shear experience.

Lately, I’ve taken to this website called Riffstation. It’s very good practice for reading basic chord charts, something I’ve never done. I can sit down, play through as many new songs as possible throughout the night (while f’ing around), but I’ve noticed I don’t commit them to memory unless I play them fairly often, I’m completely dependent on the scroll.

I suppose I would never want to risk a gig etcetera w/o knowing a song by heart. When I see the chords, am dependent on an outside entity to guide me, I focus away from the music. When you know the song, you can focus on truly feeling the music....if that makes any sense. Just being able to shut your eyes and play along is an awesome feeling, one I would never want to give up.

So, yes, take the crutches away.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bebi and Skeptismo
#8
Member8675309 said:
Just being able to shut your eyes and play along is an awesome feeling, one I would never want to give up.
Click to expand...

Yes! Thats it. You need to do your homework so you can have a good time playing with others. I feel its disrespectfull not knowing the songs. This band has been through about 100 songs the last six years. Our current list is around 30. I could still do most og the 100 if called. If I forgot parts of the more difficult ones I would pledge early altzheimer ..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Member8675309
#9
Skeptismo said:
I think they need to be freed from the charts. At most, they might need a set list with the key signatures on it. They are unlikely to ever go without the security blanket of the charts until forced.
Click to expand...
The first thing I think of when I recall a song is the key, or the first couple of chords. Then the rest kind of unfolds when I play. I dont really have a clear view of the whole composition. But when I get to the bridge or the end or whatever, I know my parts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Member8675309
#12
I've worked with keyboardists that needed no charts.
I've also worked with keyboardists that couldn't play a damn thing without a chart.
I prefer one that can do both.
It's all about hand memory. I never use charts or sheet music unless it's a song I don't know.
Even when I took a music class we were expected to perform the songs from a music sheet,
I'd learn the song and play it by hand memory.
My teacher commented I wasn't playing the song per the sheet music. How'd you know that? I ask. You added notes and trills here and there that wasn't on the sheet. He was impressed rather than perturbed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bebi
#13
  • Like
Reactions: bebi
#14
I love sit down sight reading gigs. Memorizing stuff is hard for me, retaining it is harder. I have my own data bass of sheet music (6000 items and growing).

I had 150 songs or so memorized for work last month (including 50 for a gig that I had to back out on when mom went in the hospital suddenly - I am on somebody's shut list forever I guess).

So stand up gigs are generally memorization as previously mentioned.

Memorizing that Vinnie Pizza song is awesome. Sometimes, ridiculously easy songs like Sharp Dressed Man can be train wreck prone - when exactly does the solo end? Jazz is easiest for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bebi
#15
I've used charts when learning many songs in a short period of time. But once learned I play all songs by memory though I sometimes put notes on the set list.
That's 60 plus songs in one band and 30+ songs in another band. Only 2 songs overlap.

But that's me, while I think it's better for everyone to play from memory I would never think to impose this on anyone else I play with. Everyone is different some need notes or charts or even lyric sheets. Some don't ....
 
  • Like
Reactions: bebi
#16
I’m not so much dependent on the note for note stuff, but more the song structure (i.e. intro/verse/verse/chorus/bridge) until I’ve played them often enough to just feel ‘em. Particularly if it music I’ve not heard before.

Having just joined a new band in which only about 5 tunes carried over from the last, I find myself with a music stand in front of me at rehearsals for the ‘newest 5’, while stuff I learned when I first joined is all memory, now. Can’t agree more about that feeling, when I finally know it well enough to close my eyes and groove.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IamGroot
#17
I have trouble memorizing songs with complex harmonies or structures, but find simpler material much easier. My current group does sort of novelty jazz, so we have a good number of tunes with complex harmonies that make memorizing a little harder. The hard parts are generally remembering the right turn arounds for the various sections.

Due to this we all generally have charts on stage. It's not that we don't know the music necessarily, but that we want the roadmap for certain transitions and turn arounds. Would we better off without? Yes we would. I would always agree that no charts is better and the interaction gets better. But at the same time i think if the charts were removed in my particular instance, the band might get pretty sloppy. We are all part timers with day jobs and kids, so i have a feeling the homework wouldn't always happen.

Now in my rock days, i never used a chart because the songs weren't that complex to the point of needing it. Same with funk/soul and even jazz fusion where things tend to be more riff based and a chart wouldn't really do much good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KenovaBass, IamGroot and bebi
#20
Wow... In the 70’s and 80’s I had endless repertoire last of songs duly memorized. As a result I was quite animated on stage. These days I can’t half remember my wife’s name. If you took my cheat sheet away from me I would be lost..... Everyone is different. I think for the sake of the quality of the music you should allow them the freedom of using what they need to be comfortable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BuzzCanyon and juancaminos

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back