A bit off topic, and color me ignorant on the issue... but is there a difference between a Ken Smith bass and a KSD bass? Or are they one in the same?
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KSD...Lesson Learned, pt. II
- Thread starter Guiseppe
- Start date
- Status
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 74
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
GOD FORBID!!
So I take it that means there's a difference
Sorry, I just haven't done any research on the basses other than just oogling them online. But I love your slickround strings
GOD FORBID!!)
This is what happens when one lends their name. I wonder how many calls Mike Tobias gets for Tobias basses.
ps. I love Ken Smith basses
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 74
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
The problem with the TR is not unique to the KSDs. These same Rods and Nuts have been put into 1000s of Basses of various brands (and maybe Guitars too) made in Korea.
The Tool on the ones we have seen is a 4mm Allen Wrench. Many people are either 'tool-challenged' or impatient when trying to adjust things on a Bass. If the Wrench does not go all the way inside then turning it at that point will strip the front end of the Nut. If you buy a Bass used or poorly adjusted and do not have the correct tool then why blame Brooklyn/Gear as if they have made some special Rod/Nut that only NASA can deal with?
We use long T-Handle Allen Wrenches here on the bench regardless of what size is needed. We just go out and BUY it.
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 74
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
This is what happens when one lends their name. I wonder how many calls Mike Tobias gets for Tobias basses.
ps. I love Ken Smith basses
How many if any calls does Les Paul still get?
People seem to need something to complain about especially when they can get an audience.
lets make a RULE Here or at lease as far as I am concerned. If you don't use your real name and address (like I do) then keep your opinions to yourself.
On my Forum we have a simple policy, no name = no posting. I don't want your money, I just want to know WHO is saying what!
How about those gas prices at the Pumps?
Gas sucks, I carpool now. I use my real name, so I guess I can complain until I am blue in the face
Ken, give me a discount on one of your basses please? Ok, it doesn't hurt to ask heheh
With all due respect to a maker of fantastic instruments, the above constitutes one of the most absurd proposals I have ever heard on TalkBass.
Allright, so I wasn't just drunk and imagining things?
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162105
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162105
you can call me Mr. Palm Grease!
i've always said when peeps are responding to "for sale" threads they should include their credit card numbers so the buyer knows he/she is serious about the purchase.
i've always said when peeps are responding to "for sale" threads they should include their credit card numbers so the buyer knows he/she is serious about the purchase.
A few points:
Ken, I commend you for getting on a public forum and commenting on these situations. And for doing some follow up on the service issues. You make some great instruments. I just had the opportunity to sample Jason (Visions) new five string and it is an exceptional bass, and as well put together as any instrument I've ever played. It actually made me think about trading my Sadowsky (not for long, I'm a J bass guy).
However, This goes back to a simple issue. One should be careful when they lend their name to something. I realize that KSD basses aren't built by Ken Smith, I realize, they are imported. But, as I pointed out in an earlier thread, they have had QC issues from the beginning (3 of the first 4 I saw were unplayable brand new). And it is your name. Dan Lakin did a similar thing with the Skylines, but he chose to inspect them in house, and to handle warranty himself. These are instruments priced in the same range as your KSD's.
To let Brooklyn Gear, a company that had a mediocre reputation handle this stuff was a nightmare waiting to happen.
My suggestion is this, that you have your lawyer file a cease and desist order with BG for dragging your name thru the mud. Surely, their must be some clause in that contract that allows you to get out of it if the company doesn't fulfill basic service obligations to it's customers. To continue to allow them to use your name, especially in the capacity they've been using it in, is an admission that you don't care that customers are deceived and saddled with less then acceptable products. I can not believe that is your position. It would be one thing if they were called "Brooklyn Gear Basses" with a little hang tag saying the electronics were designed by you. But that is not the case.
My other suggestion, is that the next time you allow your name to be used for anything, that you do the due diligence to be assured it is a quality operation. And that you stay involved with it at some level to be sure they stay that way. For the record my name is Steve Burkhalter. I'm not hiding behind my Mac.
Ken, I commend you for getting on a public forum and commenting on these situations. And for doing some follow up on the service issues. You make some great instruments. I just had the opportunity to sample Jason (Visions) new five string and it is an exceptional bass, and as well put together as any instrument I've ever played. It actually made me think about trading my Sadowsky (not for long, I'm a J bass guy).
However, This goes back to a simple issue. One should be careful when they lend their name to something. I realize that KSD basses aren't built by Ken Smith, I realize, they are imported. But, as I pointed out in an earlier thread, they have had QC issues from the beginning (3 of the first 4 I saw were unplayable brand new). And it is your name. Dan Lakin did a similar thing with the Skylines, but he chose to inspect them in house, and to handle warranty himself. These are instruments priced in the same range as your KSD's.
To let Brooklyn Gear, a company that had a mediocre reputation handle this stuff was a nightmare waiting to happen.
My suggestion is this, that you have your lawyer file a cease and desist order with BG for dragging your name thru the mud. Surely, their must be some clause in that contract that allows you to get out of it if the company doesn't fulfill basic service obligations to it's customers. To continue to allow them to use your name, especially in the capacity they've been using it in, is an admission that you don't care that customers are deceived and saddled with less then acceptable products. I can not believe that is your position. It would be one thing if they were called "Brooklyn Gear Basses" with a little hang tag saying the electronics were designed by you. But that is not the case.
My other suggestion, is that the next time you allow your name to be used for anything, that you do the due diligence to be assured it is a quality operation. And that you stay involved with it at some level to be sure they stay that way. For the record my name is Steve Burkhalter. I'm not hiding behind my Mac.
And if you go to the very last page before the thread was locked, you will see that Ken Smith PM'd the mod, and pretty much admitted that HE was the guy that gave me such unpleasant service. All along I thought it was just Brooklyn gear.
Note how he says that beer and electronic instruments don't mix. Tell that to the millions of bar bands out there over the years! Beer, cigarrette smoke, sweat, food....my P-bass is probably covered in all of those things. It still works just fine!
With all due respect to a maker of fantastic instruments, the above constitutes one of the most absurd proposals I have ever heard on TalkBass.
Come on, you can't see his point? I do, plenty of anonymous folks leave negative feedback. It could be anyone, including a competitor. If you don't think that happens, then you are naive.
Actually, I never really thought about using my name (which I have since I have been here at TB) until I met Mike Dimin and he thanked me for it.
i read the thread too.... Ken's response was.....well.....what i had expected. i have had my run ins w/ mr. smith and this is right on par.
i refuse to bash the man anymore then i have.... but due to his attitude and business practices i for one will not contribute to the Ken Smith fund...KSD, nor the real Smiths....
on a side note....beer at 10:30am is a problem? that was one of the funniest things ive read in a long time!!! this plce has a wide range of people that post....but man.... "you have a problem if you drink beer at 10:30am".... really quite narrow!
Well,I don't think you can ask for anything better than what Ken has offered on this situation.
Burk, you know I love you, but offering unsolicited business advice to one of the most successful bass builders ever? I think he's doing okay 
As a gospel player a "real" Ken Smith has always been on my short list of dream basses and it's still on my list. One of these days I'm going to be able to afford one. Unless Mr. Smith wants to give me one I play in front of 2500 people every Sunday, a few of them bass players...
I won't be getting a KSD though - too many negative reviews. I might consider one of the earlier "Burner" models if I could find one in really good condition.
As a gospel player a "real" Ken Smith has always been on my short list of dream basses and it's still on my list. One of these days I'm going to be able to afford one. Unless Mr. Smith wants to give me one
I play in front of 2500 people every Sunday, a few of them bass players...I won't be getting a KSD though - too many negative reviews. I might consider one of the earlier "Burner" models if I could find one in really good condition.
I never would knock the quality of Smith basses. In my opinion they were the first bass that really replaced Alembics as the "boutique" style bass. This thread and other like it are about customer service. The bassists are made from quality woods with a huge attention to detail. It is obvious Ken Smith cares about quality. But having said that, I have no doubt that when I had gone to the NAMM show a few years back and had my "experience" at the Brooklyn gear booth, had I been wearing a name tag with the name "Nathan East" on it, I would have been treated differently. Or at least courteously.
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