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You definitely have a good point there. Those two sets feel surprisingly different considering the marginal difference in gauges. I much prefer the 43-104 set.
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La Bella Deep Talkin' tension across strings inconsistent
- Thread starter Sideways S
- Start date
You definitely have a good point there. Those two sets feel surprisingly different considering the marginal difference in gauges. I much prefer the 43-104 set.
Between those two, A and D are where the difference is. 45-65-85-105 vs. 43-60-82-104. I find the 760FL to be nice and even across all four strings in terms of playing feel.
@Deleted member 271037 and others, here is the reply from La Bella:
"Thanks for reaching out. I seldom understand why these threads are even created if people can just call or email us....
Anyway, the cores are larger in the 0760Ms Originals. Further the diameter of the wrap materials, therefore the general construction, is different from the 760FL, 760FS, 760FM."
So, you were right and I was wrong! I've further asked if they thus recommend against mixing & matching strings across these and other deep talkin' sets. But if folks are mixing these and low tension sets then it seems that it's all about whether you can hear the difference yourself when you mix things.
"Thanks for reaching out. I seldom understand why these threads are even created if people can just call or email us....
Anyway, the cores are larger in the 0760Ms Originals. Further the diameter of the wrap materials, therefore the general construction, is different from the 760FL, 760FS, 760FM."
So, you were right and I was wrong! I've further asked if they thus recommend against mixing & matching strings across these and other deep talkin' sets. But if folks are mixing these and low tension sets then it seems that it's all about whether you can hear the difference yourself when you mix things.
Here is La Bella on mixing & matching across the 1954 and other sets, and generally on mixing & matching across sets:
"Definitely not. We spent decades coming up with our constructions and we think they're great the way they are. The only set that would say is not fully "balanced" is the 760FS 45-105 set. We came up with that set in the 1990s to appease players stuck on the round numbers. All of our other flat wounds have odd gauges as you see, because they fit with our "Perfectly Balanced Set" philosophy where each string has been tested to fit a particular set to achieve a perfectly balanced set in terms of tension, feel and tone. The Low Tension flats have round cores, and much lighter tension, so that would be very odd to start mixing those with a higher tension string."
"Definitely not. We spent decades coming up with our constructions and we think they're great the way they are. The only set that would say is not fully "balanced" is the 760FS 45-105 set. We came up with that set in the 1990s to appease players stuck on the round numbers. All of our other flat wounds have odd gauges as you see, because they fit with our "Perfectly Balanced Set" philosophy where each string has been tested to fit a particular set to achieve a perfectly balanced set in terms of tension, feel and tone. The Low Tension flats have round cores, and much lighter tension, so that would be very odd to start mixing those with a higher tension string."
These threads are created because there are situations where some of these strings don't live up to La Bella's "Perfectly Balanced Set" philosophy. Isn't that the whole point made by the OP? In a "perfectly balanced world" according to La Bella, discussions like this would be totally pointless, wouldn't it?
To be fair, the fella from La Bella was speaking about threads like those that question whether the 1954 heavy gauge set has different materials and construction than the other deep talkin' sets. My original email to La Bella is missing from the context, and my initial question to them was only about that one topic. The second email and second La Bella response is an answer to the question about mixing/matching gauges across sets.These threads are created because there are situations where some of these strings don't live up to La Bella's "Perfectly Balanced Set" philosophy. Isn't that the whole point made by the OP? In a "perfectly balanced world" according to La Bella, discussions like this would be totally pointless, wouldn't it?
(To be clear, this quotes La Bella as quoted by @Sideways S.)
As I have experimented with custom gauges, I have come around to what the La Bella people say here: we can balance tension from string to string easily enough looking at the numbers, but that won't necessarily balance tone (which I suppose we can at least partly quantify looking at frequency responses, though they'll vary between instruments and players) or feel (which we could probably quantify somehow, but I have a hard time imagining how, and seems even more subjective than tone).
I have put together custom sets through Stringjoy (who doesn't appear to do flats) and Curt Mangan (who does) (excellent customer service from both, by the way). I selected gauges based on the most easily quantified metric: tension. I might have noticed the more even tension, or I might have imagined it; but it didn't make a huge difference in feel. Using only my ears—subjective, but also the only "measurement" that ultimately matters—I thought "standard" gauges sounded more balanced from string to string than the gauges I chose, even though I knew my selections distributed tension more evenly. (Maybe frequency response graphs would support that, but again, in the end that doesn't really matter.) I might continue to tinker with custom gauges because I enjoy it and it doesn't cost a whole lot to try, but when it really counts, I think I will lean on the expertise of people who have made it their business to figure these things out.
@Sideways S, based on my limited experience and La Bella's extensive experience, I would suggest finding a set that suits you better if you've got one that doesn't feel quite right to you. And I bet the La Bella people would happily help you choose.
Thanks for the input. I understand what you're saying and I'm not personally fond of stepping outside the standard gauges box. As you note, I specifically broke out those three components, tension, feel, tone. Though tension and feel are closely correlated, tone is a bit less so. I'm living with these strings on this bass for now. I need the low D and these are totally serviceable for the project at hand. I am waiting to comment on the tone until they are a bit more broken in and until after I get to play with them in the studio, with the whole setup there. So far the bottom string has already warmed up with less than a week of playing it, and in general they sound as advertised.
The top string is the one that's most out of whack, tension-wise, and the one I'm most curious about in terms of tone. Normally the top string tends to stand out as the string that doesn't match the tone of the others. Maybe this high tension, fat core flatwound will sound more consistent with the rest of the set. I'm waiting to do some recording before making any judgement or comment about that. On the other hand, I hesitate to even attempt to tune it up to G, for fear of the super high tension. Definitely for solidly built instruments only. This bass fits that description, but still I hesitate to tune it up to G.
You absolutely *can* and should mix and customise gauges to your own preference, as long as all the strings have the same construction 'formula' (so, it seems, any gauges from 760FL, 760FS, 760FM). Very many people do this with all brands.
It is disappointing and poor advice that they would try to talk you out of that due to their own personal preferences of gauge combinations.
The word 'balanced' is used to mean different things.
It seems you are talking about tension, or maybe 'perceived tension', in which case many of their sets are certainly not 'balanced' (meaning equal tensions or equal 'perceived tensions') and you know this from experience. If they published tension data this would show this too. Looking at the gauges of some sets you can tell the tensions are very probably not equal, for example a .095 A next to a .110 E next to a .128 B.
What they mean by 'balanced' is "a perfectly balanced set in terms of tension, feel and tone", where 'balanced' does not mean 'equal'. This means their personal idea of the optimum combination of strings such that the combinations of tensions, 'feel's and tones across the set are all optimised, in doing so it is very probable that the string tensions will be unequal in many sets (and again, looking at the gauges suggests this).
I very much dislike it when a string manufacturer takes the patronising attitude: "Do not mess around with gauges, we know better than you what is right for you, and therefore also we will not share tension data to stop customers being aware of tensions".
D'Addario have a far better attitude and published detailed tension information a long time ago, their tension pdf. is legendary material.
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Pretty sure string manufacturers do test their strings and choose gauges appropriately. It would be silly for them not to. The last thing they want is customers complaining about unevenness.
The problem is we're all different. Some can't tell the difference between strings, they just play. Some are bothered by the perceived tension. Some only care about the tone. Some don't even know that pickup height should be adjusted and have strings of different volumes and think the string gauge is the culprit.
You can't please everyone.
The problem is we're all different. Some can't tell the difference between strings, they just play. Some are bothered by the perceived tension. Some only care about the tone. Some don't even know that pickup height should be adjusted and have strings of different volumes and think the string gauge is the culprit.
You can't please everyone.
- Sep 9, 2007
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- Endorsing Artist: Eventide, GHS Strings, G&L Guitars, NS Design, Tsunami Cables
I would LOVE to see LaBella put out a tension chart.
Many of the gauged sets were created decades ago, and probably not as "appropriately" chosen as you may think. While it would be awesome to have those things revisited on a regular basis, a 45-65-85-105 set (with its inherent flaws) outsells any other gauged set by easily 10/1 at least.
String companies would be silly not to offer that, unless there was a VERY compelling reason.
That's why it would behoove ANY string company that doesn't have one, to offer a tension chart. It's an added value that allows the players that want to take a deep dive and customize their set to do so.
@Sideways S
Sorry for the late reply. Work got crazy on me. I think it sounds better and matches better with the low tension flats on top. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for chiming in, but after playing this set tuned this way for several weeks now I would certainly disagree. The main string that seems out of place is the .110 bottom string, which as stated here originally, is on the loose side. So drop-tuning with a lighter gauge, especially a lighter gauge on the bottom string, would be counterproductive in my opinion.
The top string is definitely high tension, even tuned down to F, but the tone is good, though it can buzz (sitar) occasionally if you pick/pluck too hard.
