LA Cop Arrested for 1986 Murder

[Kael]

No disrespect to you but I could care less what the cops have told you.

There is a culture of criminals that make up a large % of offenders that could care less about the possibility of being on death row.


Ever heard the old saying?
"The catching comes before the hanging"

No disrespect taken. I hope you take none from me either. The police I've spoken to are for the large part family (law enforcement is basically the family business). These are people who've devoted their lives to this issue. When I hear the vast majority of them say the same thing I've a tendency to give it credence.

 

[mike_v_s]

And I'll bet not a SINGLE ONE of those murders was committed by someone who had been previously executed.

Don't tell ME it don't work.

So you're saying the recidivism rate in executed criminals is zero? That's pretty deep analysis there. Now let's discuss deterrence.

Mike

 

[Kael]

So you're saying the recidivism rate in executed criminals is zero? That's pretty deep analysis there. Now let'd discuss deterence.

Mike

I've heard of direct incidents of people, when being interogated, admitting that they stopped short of killing someone when assaulting them due to the fear of being executed. The instance I am referring to was a case of a rapist not killing his victim to avoid being identified.

Do I have specific names so you can sheck up on what I am saying. No I don't. Nor do I want to violate someone's privacy by knowing their name or posting in a public forum. I recieved this information from family who have zero reason to lie to me. I also acknowledge that this is also just a single case of anecdotal information. Yet life is anecdotal, therefore all statistics are merely a collection of anecdotes.


I realize that capital punishment is a hot button issue. I am not attempting to change anyone's minds, nor am I attempting to offend anyone. If this offends you, accept my apologies.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Yeah, I hear that all the time...and not one, single case has ever been given as an example, even though plenty of people have been acquitted after serving prison time.

In the state you live in

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http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/1145817

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to be convicted of a capital crime? Who wants to give someone the death sentence unless there is just no room for doubt.

It not difficult at all to be convicted of a capital offense
People lie for many reasons and in doing so, it some times land innocent people on death row.

I have several friends and associates who were wrongfully convicted and placed on death row but were found innocent later.
One just hours from execution.

Here's one right here.


http://www.law.northwestern.edu/wrongfulconvictions/exonerations/ilPorterSummary.html

http://revcom.us/a/v20/990-99/995/porter.htm

And another and there are 100's of cases of people being on death row for crimes that they did not commit.

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Have a little faith in the sagacity of twelve honest men and women.

I have none.

I hope you take none from me either

No not at all.

 

[allexcosta]

Here's the data you guys need.

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[Kael]

In regards to the issue of people being mistakenly placed upon death row, do not remove that from the realm of possibility. Courts are comprised of humans and humans are fallible. Any assertions that no one has been ever mistakenly executed would be most likely erroneous. That's why we need to keep a robust appeal process. To make sure we have every possible safeguard in place to prevent that.

 

[popinfresh]

Here's one right here.


http://www.law.northwestern.edu/wrongfulconvictions/exonerations/ilPorterSummary.html

What I find strange is, he was innocent and put on death row, then when the guilty man finally comes forward and admits to it, he isn't.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

What I find strange is, he was innocent and put on death row, then when the guilty man finally comes forward and admits to it, he isn't.

Tony Porter whom Ive know many years before he went to death row had always maintained his innocence. The guy who actually committed the murders knew things that only the killer could have know and upon his arrest they had other evidence that linked him to the murders.




Tony's case really isn't all that unique at all.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

I like role that genetic evidence plays in our criminal justice system. It makes convictions more accurate in many ways. I'm still a proponent of the death penalty, but only in the cases where there is irrefutable evidence provided by DNA or video or whatever. If there is no irrefutable evidence, then it's cases like this that make we wonder if we are justified in executing a person. I used to be a big proponent of the death penalty, being that here in California, prison over-crowding is ridiculous, but when I read about cases like this, it really gives me pause, and causes me to reconsider my stance on some things.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Eye witness testimony is so tricky, and biases really affect how people remember an incident. About seven years ago, I was in a convenience store when a young guy snatched a donation jar for a sick child. I couldn't see the guys face, he was wearing a hoodie. I only saw his chin, which was had a few hairs on it, and was very fair complected. The guy was maybe 6' 2" and was slim, maybe 165 lbs, at most. When the clerk called the cops, I and a few others stayed as witnesses. When it was my turn, I described him to the cops, and said I couldn't see his face, but I thought he was white given what I did see. When I said that, I Latina lady got visibly mad, and adamantly said the perp was black. I admitted that I didn't see his face, and he could have been a very fair black person. At that, at least one white man, and maybe a white woman, looked at me, and said the perp was white.

The bottom line was the it all happened in an instant, and out of four witnesses, three agreed on the race of the perp, one strongly disagreed. Given those circumstances, I would have felt uncomfortable fingering anybody.

That's very interesting. My girlfriend is a legal psychologist, and her research deals primarily with people's perceptions, particularly race, which has huge implications for things like witness testimony and juries.

I've spoken with multiple police officers who have said otherwise based upon direct experience. That coupled with common sense leads me to a different conclusion than the one you suggest.

I'd be much more interested in someone's opinion with a doctorate in sociology, criminal justice, or the aforementioned legal psychology, who has done empirical research into the question of whether the dealth penalty is a deterent rather than your statement of common sense or the opinions of a few police officers. I'm not saying that police officers lack credible opinions, but you can't generalize the opinions of a select few in order to induce the answer to a question like this.

For the record, I'm not saying one way or another whether the death penalty is a valid deterent. I'm just saying that you need a valid method to determine the answer to that question. I'm sure the death penalty is a deterent in many people's minds. I know that the thought of jail is what keeps me from punching out a lot of the idiots I come across in life. However, does is the death penalty a huge deterent for majority of those convicted of murders?

 

[JAUQO III-X]

is the death penalty a huge deterent for majority of those convicted of murders?

No it's not and I lived with those very murderers that people believe would have been deterred from committing such acts.



Again there is a cultural of criminals that are different from repeat offenders and those are the type of criminals that are rarely talked about.

 

[Jared Lash]

No, my take is that it's ridiculous to talk about the death penalty not being "a deterrent," when the people who are executed never kill again.

I see. You don't understand the meaning of the word "deterrent".

It has nothing to do with what occurs after the fact. If the death penalty were a "deterrent" it implies the murders wouldn't occur in the first place. Statistics don't bear out your point.

Even so, your argument doesn't hold up in this sense - how does a life sentence fail to prevent that person from killing again?

 

[mike_v_s]

I see. You don't understand the meaning of the word "deterrent".

It has nothing to do with what occurs after the fact. If the death penalty were a "deterrent" it implies the murders wouldn't occur in the first place. Statistics don't bear out your point.

Even so, your argument doesn't hold up in this sense - how does a life sentence fail to prevent that person from killing again?

Stop it with the common sense, already. You're making my preconceived notions hurt.

Mike

 

[Jared Lash]

Stop it with the common sense, already. You're making my preconceived notions hurt.

Mike

Like a lot of issues, I've changed my mind a few times on the death penalty. I figure it's a side of effect of getting older and dumber. After all, when I was 17 I knew everything and as the years go by I realize I know less and less.

In any event, the bottom line is that as a society we want to do everything we can to prevent murders from occurring. If it was proven that the death penalty made us safer from the prospect of future murders then I'd be in favor of it being applied judiciously. That's the end of my logic.

To me the argument that it costs more to keep a prisoner in jail for life is less than the cost of the execution process doesn't really matter. First, I'm not convinced that's the case - it certainly doesn't HAVE to be the case but more importantly, if the death penalty actually stopped murders it seems distasteful to refrain from applying it based on financial concerns.

But the takeaway is that I have yet to see compelling statistical evidence that the death penalty helps prevent murders.

 

[sfericean]

HOLY CRAP!!!

Thats all one could say...

 

[mike_v_s]

Like a lot of issues, I've changed my mind a few times on the death penalty. I figure it's a side of effect of getting older and dumber. After all, when I was 17 I knew everything and as the years go by I realize I know less and less.

I've switched a few times myself, but have been on the "against" side of the fence for a while now. My main reason is more philosophical than anything else (that's a whole other discussion), but the idea that we have executed innocent people is very troubling. Pair that with a murder rate that doesn't seem to waiver with any statistical trend related to the death penalty (goodbye deterrent argument) and I'm left confused as to why anyone would support the practice short of "class action revenge" by a community/society or "State-funded revenge" on behalf of the victim(s) or the family. But hey, I like typing in large letters, so what do I know?

Mike

 

[Bayou_Brawler]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-detective-arrested6-2009jun06,0,2400854.story


This makes really wonder about people convicted or even executed with shaky eye witness or even circumstantial evidence.

it's pretty much a statistical fact that roughly 5% of people on death row around the country are innocent.

kinda scary.

good reason to stay OUT and AWAY from the system.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

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Here is another story about my OP. The family did ask the police to investigate her, but the LAPD under then Chief Daryl Gates would not do it even though Officer Lazarus had threatened the victim a few months earlier. The LAPD has one more in a long list of things to be ashamed of now.:scowl:

 

[Jim Nazium]

Quote from the news story:
"It's painful," LAPD Chief William J. Bratton said. "But murder is also very painful."

Regarding the death penalty discussion: IBTL.

 

[Drifta]

The death penalty DOES deter crime.

what a joke of a statement.

Criminals don't think about consequences before committing their act, and especially those who are committing crimes worthy of a death penalty. c'mon man.