Labella round wound break angle

[Sam Dingle]

For the first time in 10 years I popped a bass string a few months ago, and it was the E string. I had just switched to Labella RX nickels 45-105 and it popped at the bridge. I had my action jacked pretty high so I explained it as a bad break angle. The strings are lower now and I have a new set of LaBellas on and wanted to post a photo of the bass setup the way I like it with the action at a good spot and intonation set. How does this look to y’all? Should I be concerned about the wrap near the ball end touching over the saddle?

just looking for peace of mind from other players that the last one was a fluke. If it happens again I may have to stick to a different brand on this bass

 

[Spidey2112]

 

[Sam Dingle]

View attachment 5210140

Ok….

 

[Don Kasper]

View attachment 5210140

I get it!!
"...break angel."
Well played, Sir.

 

[Sam Dingle]

Great. anyone have an actual answer on this?

 

[Don Kasper]

Great. anyone have an actual answer on this?

Maybe replace the OEM/POS bridge with a more modern bridge design, esp. regarding the saddle(s)...those old-school barrel-type saddles don't distribute the down-force like a more modern "ramp-type" saddle would. Maybe the concentrated down-force was a factor in the break? If LaBella's (E's) broke more than other manufacturers, wouldn't the TB Hive confirm this and warn you?
IMFO, of course.
Sorry to have some TB Fun at your expense, Sam.
Good luck. (Srsly).

 

[Spidey2112]

Sam, when I hear 'popped at the bridge', do you mean snapped in two there, or jumped off the saddle?

I don't like the bunching up of wire wrap on one side of the saddle. That alone would give me pause.

Even with higher action, the strings should still maintain the radius of the fretboard... usually. I don't know if it's the point of view of the pic, but it looks extremely high, relative to the other strings. It almost looks as though the rear of the bridge is bent forward, as well.

Have you always used this particular setup on your basses?

 

[Sam Dingle]

Sam, when I hear 'popped at the bridge', do you mean snapped in two there, or jumped off the saddle?

I don't like the bunching up of wire wrap on one side of the saddle. That alone would give me pause.

Even with higher action, the strings should still maintain the radius of the fretboard... usually. I don't know if it's the point of view of the pic, but it looks extremely high, relative to the other strings. It almost looks as though the rear of the bridge is bent forward, as well.

Have you always used this particular setup on your basses?

Popped meaning the string broke at the ball end where the brake ANGLE was (lol).

Here are a few photos, the bridge is flush with the body and the E is as high as the other strings on the bridge. Theres a photo of the broken E, a photo of each of my basses with Labella Rounds on them at the bridge and a photo of a Labella round that hasn't been mounted yet.

 

[Don Kasper]

Popped meaning the string broke at the ball end where the brake ANGLE was (lol).

Here are a few photos, the bridge is flush with the body and the E is as high as the other strings on the bridge. Theres a photo of the broken E, a photo of each of my basses with Labella Rounds on them at the bridge and a photo of a Labella round that hasn't been mounted yet.

You could install a 1/8" shim (brass?) under the OEM bridge, which would lessen the break angle.
Easy for a luthier to do if you want to keep using the OEM bridge.
IMFO. I Am Not A Luthier, but I have (sucessfully) assembled 3 Warmoth basses in the past 30 yrs.
Good Luck.

 

[Spidey2112]

ANGLE

My man.

 

[micguy]

It kinda looks like your bridge isn't located correctly - I'd have to see the thing face on (not from the side) to be certain - the G string's saddle should be about as far forward as the the screw allows - yours looks like it might be located too close to the nut, hence the short amount of string before it gets to the bridge. That sets up the resultant stress point where the string broke - it's bent right where the extra winding stops, which could be the root of your problem.

 

[Sam Dingle]

It kinda looks like your bridge isn't located correctly - I'd have to see the thing face on (not from the side) to be certain - the G string's saddle should be about as far forward as the the screw allows - yours looks like it might be located too close to the nut, hence the short amount of string before it gets to the bridge. That sets up the resultant stress point where the string broke - it's bent right where the extra winding stops, which could be the root of your problem.

so that’s actually the E string not sure if that was a typo but just wanted to clarify (also don’t know if it matters too much but this particular bass I keep tuned down a whole step so DGCF) here’s a photo from the front and it looks fine to me, maybe I’m wrong

 

[micguy]

so that’s actually the E string not sure if that was a typo but just wanted to clarify (also don’t know if it matters too much but this particular bass I keep tuned down a whole step so DGCF) here’s a photo from the front and it looks fine to me, maybe I’m wrong

You could move that bridge back 1/4" or so, and it would improve a couple of things:

1) The break you just had would be less likely to happen, and...

2) You'd have less chance of winding the fat part of the E (or D) string around the tuner post

 

[Spidey2112]

That E saddle looks so far, rearward. I think I read somewhere, the theoretical placement of each string's saddle (using G as a reference; 34" scale, the midpoint of the G string saddle should be 17" from the 12th fret). Each successive string should be the previous string's width distance, rearward.

Ex. Placing the D string's saddle rearward, the width of the G. The A string saddle rearward the width of the D, and so on.

It's not exact, but it gets you in the ballpark.

 

[BigDrew]

Is it possible that the rust on the bridge caused the break?

 

[Yahboy]

great witness point !

 

[Matt O]

If the winding is riding on the saddle, you can thread the string through a couple small washers before threading through the bridge plate so that the washers are between the bridge plate and ball end.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

If the winding is riding on the saddle, you can thread the string through a couple small washers before threading through the bridge plate so that the washers are between the bridge plate and ball end.

Good advice! That's what I would have done in this situation (assuming the bass is actually intonated correctly).

Looking at the pics I think it will probably be ok as it is but it's close... VERY close! Adding a washer is 100% reversible and the cheapest, easiest solution.

 

[Hillbilly Sam]

Hey man. Don't know if I'll be of much help:

- Your E string break angle seems better on the last pic provided (vs the first ones).

- Adding some washers between the ball end of the string and the bridge would likely help soften that break angle (~ similar to placing the bridge back, like micguy suggested, but being much less "drastic". At the end of the day it's a free and easily reversible experiment, so I'd start with that.
Also, if the issue occurs only on the E, that solution would be much better than shimming the whole bridge (and easier too).

- I find the E saddle to be extremely rearwards, specially in comparison with the rest. If the intonation is OK, then it is what it is, but having that saddle so further back doesn't help with the break angle.
I don't know why, but something that has worked for me in such cases is to "reset" the saddles, place them in a flushed/right way, and then check the intonation again.
In my experience, I've only seen such rearwards/unflushed saddles with crooked basses or crooked (really old and worn) strings.

 

[Hillbilly Sam]

Also made some pics of the 2 basses I got strung with La Bellas, although both are flatwounds.

1. A ~74 P bass, with its original bridge:

2. A 87 fretless Stingray, with the original bridge as well:

I think that the Stingray's break angle is quite smaller, but that might be due to that the P neck is sporting a small shim. Also, action is set pretty low on both (around 1.5mm for the E string at the 12th fret).
Anyway: never broke any string on the P, the bridge is old and everything's pretty beat up.

Although flatwounds, you can see some of the windings around/close to the saddles. Again: never had any problem with that. Hope it could find it helpful somehow