Lacking Low End

[FretNoMore]

From what I've read the ATK 300 can do low end, and as andrew wrote there is no lack of options on the pedal board either.

So no, a new bass is not necessary.

 

[Basshappi]

It's your tone, you've worked hard to achieve it.
Have faith in your decisions and go with it.

 

[gastric]

It's a bit of process of elimination, like any troubleshooting.

* Assuming you agree that you ARE actually light on low end, how do you know it's your fault and not the sound man's fault? Perhaps the sound person also got sick of the low end mud and simply cut the low end on the bass?
* Assuming you think it's your fault, how do you rule out that your entire tone isn't light on low end VS it's the fault of your effects or effects settings? Did you play some passage totally clean and your buddies said "you had perfect low end during the clean parts, but the effects lost all of the low end?"
* Perhaps your buddies were standing in one spot in the room that accentuated the bass, then moved for your slot and were not standing in a spot where there were some standing waves negating the bass?

Note that you probably would want low mids, not low lows which is where the kick usually lives.

 

[gregmon79]

The more suggestions being put forth by up you all is starting to make me believe I started doubting myself. After all, I usually get nothing but great compliments about my tone. I had a guy tell me the same night, this is a fan of ours and an all around music lover that has been coming to every show we've had just about, tell me he thinks that I'm the backbone of the band plain and simple. While I love hearing stuff like that, I also would like to hear the stuff that I don't always want to hear. Like I lacked low end that night. The sound guy could've been tweaking things due to the previous bands bassists sound, who knows. I'm still glad I brought to y'all here on TB. It was the best place for me to explore the topic and to get positive feedback on things I can try.

I will start simple my adding and or subtracting EQ variables on my head and bass and B7K. The one thing that has always been an issue in my mind was my amp and me clipping it. I try to be very careful and cautious about not going into clipping which lead me to not quite be able to do some things EQ wise for a while now. It's held me back to a certain extent from trying different things with EQ and so forth. But that's my own fault. There's the db pad to engage when using active electronics which I don't like and usually don't engage. I always felt it sucked too much of something out of my sound. Quite frankly, I'm going to try playing with it engaged for a while and see how it goes. I also have the 4/5 button that can help give me a type of bass boost. I normally play with the button set to 4. Turning the bass up on my onboard a little or subtracting a little treble. That ATK onboard goes a long way in a little turn. I'm not looking to reinvent my sound. I just want a little more low end articulated in.

 

[Adamixoye]

I'm going to throw this out there, is it possible your Fdeck is just doing it's job TOO WELL in a way people aren't used to?

 

[gregmon79]

I'm going to throw this out there, is it possible your Fdeck is just doing it's job TOO WELL in a way people aren't used to?

Never thought of that. But last I remember A/B'ing the fdeck with and then without it through my rig, it didn't seem to make an audible difference. I didn't try it at practice though where we play quite loud. I'm really thinking me engaging the db pad and the 4/5 button to 5 and messing with my EQ a bit will do wonders.

 

[Adamixoye]

Never thought of that. But last I remember A/B'ing the fdeck with and then without it through my rig, it didn't seem to make an audible difference.

Well that's kind of the point though isn't it? Maybe people are perceiving a lack of subsonic "rumble" rather than a true lack of low end where it should count, and maybe that difference is not something you notice when testing it out. Just a thought. I am operating on my understanding of what it does rather than first hand experience, so have your grain of salt ready.

 

[skulletwhip]

Back when I had an ATK I found it to be kinda clicky through a DI. I also found taking the treble knob down about 50% made a big difference. It tamed the zing and brought out some thump.

 

[gregmon79]

Back when I had an ATK I found it to be kinda clicky through a DI. I also found taking the treble knob down about 50% made a big difference. It tamed the zing and brought out some thump.

I keep the onboard flat with the bass bumped up just a tad. Sometimes the treble too. With the db pushed in, that may change a little. I also keep the switch in the middle position. If I were to keep it all the way back it would be quite clicky. Which works at times. But I predominantly keep it in the middle.

 

[skulletwhip]

I always kept the switch there too. Unless I bumped it.. d'oh.

 

[gregmon79]

So, I had practice last night. I tried a few different things. One thing I know isn't going to work for me, is the 4/5 string button on my amp. It's too much, switched it back to 4 string. Engaging the db def helped and left a lot of other options open. I must say, I got disappointed and very frustrated after a while. My XD1 sounds AWESOME on it's own and even stacked with my rat king and DG fuzz. But it sounded undefined and muddy with my main go to dirts, the odb3 and OCD. I'm am breaking my board down this weekend and taking some things off and starting from scratch so to speak. I have to, it's the best solution I can come up with at this point. I also thought about it this morning, I've been running my rig as a bi-amp rig ever since I got it. I'm thinking maybe I should try to run it in full range for a change for while, see what happens.

In the end, I think I just started thinking about my friends comment too much. I'm happy with my sound/tone. Why mess with a good thing. So I don't have a lot of low end, depends on your definition of what low end is too. It's my style and I'm stickin to it. I'm still going to take some things off my board and start over sort of. But I'm going at it with what works for me and or what's worked for me in the past and see what happens. I'm sure this won't be my last post here

 

[jimmybc91]

Honestly after reading this thread I believe the definition of "low end" differs between people. Naturally the bass is always on the low end of things, the way it's built. You can not make a bass sound like a guitar unless you cut the direct signal (octave pedals and such). I would just stick with your tone man, you earned it!

Not so long ago I found my tone, my settings that I really really like. But to others, I didn't have enough lows. So I revaluated what I played and I found that I was playing on the upper register too much, when the song needed some support instead of providing it I was just adding the main riff or something similar. Yea, I think it sounded cool, and it did! But I was forgetting my role in the band. Now your band may be different, and the style may be different. I am just suggesting to look at what you are playing and ask yourself if you are supporting the band, or is someone else doing that? Or maybe that's what you guys are trying to achieve (no support just drums and rhythm?). My 2cents.. =]

 

[David Beers]

Greg, from my experience with GK, I have always preferred full range operation. Not surprised you found the 5 string mode too much.

The muddiness you're hearing is simply mono-band distortion, I am thinking. Multiband had a fidelity and definition you cannot get otherwise. If you're not getting good results mixing the XD with those two, most likely they are the limiting factor.

I'm tempted to ask you, "how many different kinds of distortion do you need?" But clearly, the answer is 'several.' But of course, it's better two have two great tones than several good or okay ones

 

[David Beers]

Just to be clear, I'm tooting the horn of multiband, not Brimstone. If Fulltone made a dual band OCD it would probably kick ass.

Also, I notice that the duality and rattail are more extreme distortion / fuzz effects, while the OCD is more of a transparent OD (the boss can do both, depending on how it's set, correct?) It kind of makes sense that the XD works with the fuzz pedals - you're getting a dual band version of your fuzz tone, essentially. Using a transparent OD in front may be redundant, since both pedals are going for clarity.

On the positive side, I hear you can get money for used pedals on the Internet, in case you decide five distortion pedals is too many.

 

[andrew]

If you're not getting good results mixing the XD with those two, most likely they are the limiting factor.

I agree with this. I mentioned in another thread I'm frustrated by how certain dirt pedals are sounding into the BigRed because it has a knack for spotlighting whatever subtle shortcomings the other pedal may have in it's eq balance/fidelity. But that's not the fault of the XD,

Conversely, finding pedals that do work well into the BigRed yields some killer, killer tones!

It's all relative too. It's a great pedal, but I thought the Empress Multidrive sounded killer until I got the XD. It still sounds good, but hearing the two side by side, the Multidrive has a real obvious cloudy high end, the "blanket over my cab" effect. That now bugs me about that pedal. It's like watching regular TV, then watching HD for a while and then going back to a regular signal. Before hand regular TV is fine, after seeing HD you notice what the regular tv picture lacks in clarity.
The XD is HD for your bass tone.

You're on the money with the Rat King though, that pedal sounds so damn good into the XD. I have a BDPG coming, I'll let you know how it is into the XD too.

 

[andrew]

Also, I notice that the duality and rattail are more extreme distortion / fuzz effects, while the OCD is more of a transparent OD (the boss can do both, depending on how it's set, correct?) It kind of makes sense that the XD works with the fuzz pedals - you're getting a dual band version of your fuzz tone, essentially. Using a transparent OD in front may be redundant, since both pedals are going for clarity.

That's exactly what I'm finding; many transparent OD pedals just rob the XD's tone by itself by imposing their eq imbalances into the XD. And Gregmon I'm sorry to say what I've found is many other OD pedals rob the XD in the lows and mids, so that'd not help your current concern. Every time I find it sounds cool in some way but at the expense of another aspect of the XD's tone on it's own.

That's why I asked about what other pedals people are using into their XD in another thread, because I believe pedals with comparable fidelity exist, it's just a matter of finding them. In the meantime, my RatTail is getting a clean blend added so my plan is to use it in lieu of another overdrive when I want the XD's sound pushed more.

And I know the pain of having to let go of those you love for the bigger good of my tone; I love the old Marshall Guv'nor. But it doesn't sound that good into the XD, so I had to take it out of my signal chain. This made me sad. Ol' Guv and I made some great memories together. And I'll still use it in other places/projects, but I knew it was in the way of a bigger/better tone so I had to send it to pedal heaven. By pedal heaven I mean an old dresser in our rehearsal space. Don't worry, I didn't take it behind the barn and shoot it or anything.

 

[gregmon79]

Oh man I'm glad I'm not crazy! I really thought I was. It was amazing what the XD1 did for the DG fuzz and rat king. They sounded so much more, I'm gonna say it, HD!! Haha. They did though. My main dirt sound has always been my trusty OCD and ODB3 and it is going to be extremely hard to let those two off my board. Extremely. But I can cop the same dirt with the XD1 as the ODB3 so that's not a huge loss. And it sounds better. The OCD is gonna kill me when it goes off I've had a love affair with that pedal ever since I got the B7K. But man, I have to say, the XD1 all by itself with no dirt rolling into it or out of it sounds magical. I do believe it's going to take it's place in my primary line up. I can't deny it's high fidelity sound. It just puts my tone in everyone's face.

Believe me, I was trying to fight it last night, that's why I got so frustrated. But I think it is time to retire the OCD and ODB3 from my main board. That may change in weeks to come but for now, I'm gonna give the XD1 it's time to shine. And my band, especially the drummer and guitarist, can tell when something changed. I get those looks on their faces in the beginnings of songs haha. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's bad. I fear change when it comes to pedals believe it or not. And the XD1 has caused me to rethink some things. This could be good or bad in the long run. But at least I can't say that I didn't try different things. For now, it's a time for me to experiment more and get out of my comfort zone. The XD1 most def does that. It's exciting but at the same time frustrating at times. That's how it be at times though. Gotta keep rockin.

 

[David Beers]

By pedal heaven I mean an old dresser in our rehearsal space. Don't worry, I didn't take it behind the barn and shoot it or anything.

Haha, the Old Yeller Solution! I'm glad you spared them that. The drawer is like a "purgatory" of sorts, occasionally one finds it's way back out. Occasionally.

Thanks for the great feedback. Perhaps your comparison to HD TV will make it into our sales verbiage at some point, that's pretty great stuff.

 

[gregmon79]

Yeah, I have to admit that the HD comment is pretty damn accurate. It was pretty awesome the tones I was getting last night at practice. Very defined and clear. You could really hear what I was playing. High def hehe

 

[David Beers]

I feel like XD shines the most when mixed with the whole band. Glad you are finding the same thing, ditto for Andrew. And that's what it's all about, isn't it?