• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Lacking resonance on the E-string

A

Auckland

Guest
Apr 16, 2015
3
0
60
#1
Hi all,

I just got a new Shen SB200 Gemunder Willow. I have Spiros on it.

I feel like the E string has an obviously lower presence than the other strings, and wonder if it is possible that I have a bad bass. The E, fingered all the way up to A, just doesn't get any support from the body -- very little resonance at all.

Once I hit the other strings, they vibrate the whole body and project well. I'm very, very concerned, as I have seen nothing but accolades cast for the Gemunder's performance for the money ($5500). That's why I bought it.

I couldn't find one local, so I bought this and received it directly from the seller via private delivery. I could be lectured for not playing it a bunch and testing it, but that's not my angle here.

What I want to know is whether some basses are bad like this, or if I am not giving this bass enough time or credit, possibly, for being pretty normal.

I had a Kohr K-59 that I learned on for two years, and even though this bass sounds much more complex and open across most of the range, I genuinely can't say it has any more volume on the E string than the Kohr -- and I used to laugh at it for its lack of bottom, but excused it for being a $2000 laminated student bass.

Any ideas? Should the E string boom?

Thank you all in advance!

Auckland
 
#4
Auckland said:
I feel like the E string has an obviously lower presence than the other strings, and wonder if it is possible that I have a bad bass. The E, fingered all the way up to A, just doesn't get any support from the body -- very little resonance at all.

Auckland
Click to expand...

This may have nothing to do with your problem. but have you tried changing the string? When I used spiros, I had a couple bad E's that just didn't match the other strings in the set. The only solution was to get a new E. This was a while ago, and I thought Thomastik had really improved their quality control since then, but it might still be worth a shot. Especially if you can borrow a string from a friend or teacher...
 
#5
Auckland said:
The dealer, Bobsbasses in Md., did the setup.

Do you think setup factors could really make this change much?

Thanks for the reply.
Click to expand...

Yes, a second opinion. Where are you located? Doesn't Bob's offer a trial period? It may be something related to the soundpost. What spiros are on it now? You could try a lighter or heavier Spiro E, or whole set, to see if that helps.

A student of mine recently trialed and bought a very nice new bass, but with an E string that wasn't speaking very well pizz (arco, it was huge). The bass came with a Spiro Stark E, probably in hopes of gaining more oomph, but that string wasn't the answer. I put a Spiro Weich E on the bass and that string paired with the other Spiro Mittels that were on it helped a lot. The weich E gave more center to the low notes. Now five months later, the lower notes on the bass are really speaking pretty well.

Sometimes it can take a while for a new bass to "open up" and develop with playing time.
 
Last edited:
#6
+1 to getting to a bass luthier (someone who specializes in basses is ideal). Could be any number of, or combination of, small things. We can guess all day long, but I, for one, still won't really know.

A simple sound post adjustment can do a lot. A heavier endpin can do a lot, if it is a lighter endpin. Any number of small changes can make a big difference.
 
#7
Eric Hochberg said:
Yes, a second opinion. Where are you located? Doesn't Bob's offer a trial period? It may be something related to the soundpost. What spiros are on it now? You could try a lighter or heavier Spiro E, or whole set, to see if that helps.

A student of mine recently trialed and bought a very nice new bass, but with an E string that wasn't speaking very well pizz. The bass came with a Spiro Stark E, probably in hopes of gaining more oomph, but that string wasn't the answer. I put a Spiro Weich on the bass and that string paired with the other Spiro Mittels that were on it helped a lot. Now five months later, the lower notes on the bass are really speaking pretty well.
Click to expand...

Agree. It's funny how this "heavier E/lighter E" thing can work. I've got two basses that are almost exact copies of each other. One likes the stark on the bottom, the other sounds bigger with a regular spiro. You'll never know until you try.

I had a lower end carved bass once that liked the bridge feet scooted about 1/2" toward the bass side, and when this was done, the whole sound opened up like a flower. Damned things are mysterious sometimes!
 
#9
Auckland said:
The dealer, Bobsbasses in Md., did the setup.

Do you think setup factors could really make this change much?

Thanks for the reply.
Click to expand...
In a word, yes-- as others have noted. I get the feeling from your description that the weakness of the E is more substantial than what is usually solved by changing string gauges. I can't hear it, so I could be completely wrong. It could be a dead string as bassmanbrent suggests. In any case, this is an issue for a talented double-bass luthier.
 
#10
Could be a new-bass issue. My experience with new basses (including two Shens, a 150 and a Rogeri Willow) and basses that have not been played seriously in some time is that they get sleepy and need to be woken up. Do this:

Bow a perfect fifth on the open E/closed B on the A string for a solid minute, then play an E/Ab flat fifth for a minute. Do the same on the other strings to get the wood used to moving in response to a variety of pitches. Lean into the bow hard. Play LOUD, the louder the better.

Then, run some two-octave scales around the cycle of fifths using the bow. The point of the exercise is to get the wood moving as much as possible. If you want to go crazy and have a little fun, tune the strings to an open D chord, pop the frog off your bow, run the hair OVER the strings and the stick UNDER the strings, and proceed to make a horrendous racket. That should solve at least some of your problem. "Playing in" is a real thing.

If the bum-string possibility doesn't cure it a soundpost adjustment would be the next step, followed by examining your technique and the acoustic environment you're playing it. Playing facing into the corner of a good, live room can be eye-opening.

Give the dealer a call, explain the problem and inquire about after-the-sale service. They may be able to hook you up with a luthier in your area.
 
#11
It could be the wrong string choice or a dead string, but string to string balance issues are often solved by changing the soundpost position. WIth any new to you bass, schedule some in person bench time at a good bass luthier shop and have them sit down with you and reposition the soundpost a dozen times so you can hear the full spectrum of the bass and then choose the one that is right for your ears and playing style. If your guy refuses to do something like this, then it is time to find a new "guy".

j.
www.condino.com
www.kaybassrepair.com
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: drurb
#12
I had a similar issue. I brought into to the shop, and my guy cut down the soundpost a bit, as he felt it was a little tight. It definitely opened up the e string substantially.
It was a cheap fix, and though it might not fix your problem, it demonstrates what an experienced luthier can do with bass in hand and ten minutes of bench work. Definitely cost me less than a new spiro e string. I agree with James Condino and the others who suggest that a good luthier should be able to get to the root of the problem. It will save you a lot of guesswork, and quite possibly some dough.
 
#13
I think Kungfu's suggestion, although valuable, would produce a more subtle change than you seem to need. It sure couldn't hurt to try it and it'll likely be of some benefit. Your bass, according to your description, is "sleepy" on only one string. The obvious imbalance across strings is likely to require a sound-post adjustment, as others have noted.
 
#14
philip sirois said:
I had a similar issue. I brought into to the shop, and my guy cut down the soundpost a bit, as he felt it was a little tight. It definitely opened up the e string substantially.
It was a cheap fix, and though it might not fix your problem, it demonstrates what an experienced luthier can do with bass in hand and ten minutes of bench work. Definitely cost me less than a new spiro e string.
Click to expand...

This is good point. I had owned my bass for several years when I had the dead E string problem. The local bass guru knew the bass well and there definitely wasn't a problem with the soundpost fit. A new string was the right solution for me, but it may not be for the OP.
 
#16
The SB 200 Gemunder model is a large bass and every one of the new ones that I have stocked in the past have has a very prominent low end response. Likely culprits, as others have mentioned here, are the newness of the bass and the current state of the setup. With a month or two spent waking it up once the setup is refined, it should be performing very well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KUNGfuSHERIFF
#17
Steve Swan said:
The SB 200 Gemunder model is a large bass and every one of the new ones that I have stocked in the past have has a very prominent low end response. Likely culprits, as others have mentioned here, are the newness of the bass and the current state of the setup. With a month or two spent waking it up once the setup is refined, it should be performing very well.
Click to expand...


Steve, thank you and everyone here who has taken the time to contribute ideas to my concern. I have truly seen not one criticism of this model, and my disappointment with the bottom is quite a surprise. I hear folks talking about their basses "rumbling the room" and "shaking walls" and such fun talk, and mine does nothing of the sort.

I've written the seller about it, and he feels I'm misjudging the bass, stating that it is a very good bass and that many competent players use them with great results. Mine is just so quiet and weak at the bottom! Indeed, the only way to get bass into my recordings is to supplement the mic input with a bridge-mounted piezo puckup, and I HATE THAT SOUND! It is artificial and odd, but, again, is the only way to supplement the 8db loss of energy once I get to the E string.

I reiterate, it seems that it is the lack of resonant support from the body of the bass that causes the loss of sound. The bass vibrates into my hip and the room on the other strings -- the whole body of wood responds -- but once on the E string, it is like it is disconnected.

I had offered to pay three times this much ($5500) for a bass that would be my last. I'm an intermediate player, and record in my studio and practice quite a bit, but I have no higher involvements. That being said, I want the tone to drive and inspire me, so I wanted to spend what I had to for something that would be easily enough for my minimal abilities. I just never wanted to look back. I was told that this would be just fine, and I'd bet that many of the Gemunders ARE fine -- mine just seems to be a bit dead.

I'll take it to the local shop here and have the bass specialist give it a whirl and see what he thinks. I will say that I took my beginning Kohr K-59 to them and asked for a bit of tweaking and they said "These laminated basses typically have no low end, so when you can get a carved one, you'll discover the E string!" Well, the irony is that the Kohr had more low-end resonance than this bass (although I played it from new almost 2 hours a night for 18 months and it may have broken in nicely for a cheap bass). The Kohr had not the timbre or character or sustain of this Gemunder, but it certainly had a bit more body support of the E-string notes, more talk from the wood from E to A on the E string.

Interesting stuff. It brought me here to this nice community to find very encouraging interaction from you all, and I'm grateful.

Auckland
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back