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LAKLAND USA VS SKYLINE?

#61
mrpackerguy said:
I've owned both. I agree with the sentiments that sound-wise, you're really not going to hear much of a difference. It's all in the fit, finish and feel. And even then, I have a Korean Glaub with Fralin and everyone who plays it who's not familiar with the brand is flat out amazed at the sound and feel. But I owned a McFarland 4-94 I never should have parted with. I've never had a bass feel so natural and playable as that early Lakland bass. (Supporting TB and LOG member)
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+1

Well, I've not owned the US, but played a good number and they are amazing and worth the money, but if you listen to the soundclips, strictly speaking it's hard to hear a huge difference. That's not to say the inspiration you get from such a wonderful instrument really does bring out some of my best playing.
 
#62
I have owned a 55-02D for a couple of years and it's a great instrument. I had the opportunity at NAMM to play a US version. It felt instantly familiar. If I didn't know it was a US model, I would have had no clue.

Now, that said, I'm an absolute hack player. A rank amateur that has had one paying gig in my life. I'm a bass hobbyist. I can tell the difference between a $200 beginner model and an $800-$1000 model. The fit, finish, and feel are vastly different. Once you get over $1000 for a bass, the fit, finish, and feel are typically pretty good.

I own a US Fender P5 and it's a great bass. I think I paid about $900 for it new (gotta love GC sale weekends). My 55-02 is perfect as well. I've had a couple of G&L's...a Tribute and a US....both were great.

In the end, I think it comes down to what your expectations are. I expect my bass to be easy to play, comfortable, and sound good. Sounding good, of course, is dependent more on your rig, room, and sound guy than anything else. Take the best bass on the planet and put it through a ratty PA and that $5000 bass isn't going to do much.
 
#63
Over all it is a price point issue, i own 2 skylines and would love a US model but my budget and the type of gigs i play now do not justify spending close to $4000 on a bass. sort of like i would love to own a top end Lexus but my budget is definitely more in the Camry range. every bodies needs are different as are their budget. if someone needs a bass and has around $1500 to spend you would be hard pressed to find a better bass than a lakland skyline. The new US -14 models do open up US models to more people. but i got my fretted and fretless skylines for less than one of -14's too. their is no perfect answer, but i feel budget might be the greatest determining factor.
 
#64
Old thread I have already wieghed in on, but I guess the question continues. I currently own a USA 55-94D with Bart PUPs and preamp and a Skyline 55AJ with Lakland single coil PUPS and MK1 preamp. I also have owned a Skyline 5501, a DPLE II Skyline Glaub with Darkstar and B&B neck, a Skyline JO5 with Fralins and a Skyline Glaub with the stock (at the time) Fralin PUP.

The 55-94 is in every way superb: 8.5 pounds, perfect balance, absolutely even response all the way up and across the neck. Killer with flats for funk or Motown sound, crystal clear with rounds for a more modern touch. The Lakland 55 neck is my favorite after almost 50 years of playing. The differences between USA and Skyline have been, for me:

Skyline
Averages 1.5 pounds heavier, sometimes up to almost 3 pounds depending on model.
Gloss finish back of the neck as opposed to satin
Brushed metal bridge saddles as opposed to chrome
Brushed metal tuning gears (but not the paddle itself)
Plastic nut as opposed to bone

There may be other differences I am not aware of.

Of the Skylines I have owned, only the JO5 exhibited the old Fender "dead spot" around the 5th fret on the G string. Since I have never played the USA versions of the Skylines I have owned, or the Skyline version of the 55-94, I can't testify to differences in sound, how necks feel or fit and finish. All I can say is that I have been happy with every Lakland I've owned, and the only reason I don't still own all I have purchased is that I am one of those guys who buys basses all the time and sometimes has to sell them because I simply don't use them as much as I thought I would. And maybe I'm addicted to buying. ;)

Right now, the 55AJ fills a place in my arsenal that was missing: Active bass with single coil PUPs. It is a snarling beast with rounds but also capable of clarity and, at least preliminarily, I think the B string sounds even better than the B on the 55-94 did when I used rounds on it.

If you can afford the price tag for a USA, by all means, get one -- you will not regret it. If you just can't do it, spending $1,200-$1,500 on a Skyline is far from a bad idea. I have a Steinberger L2 that cost $1,500 used and a Rick 4001C64 that ran me $2,200, and neither feels or sounds as good for all applications as any of the Laklands I have owned. If I had to have only one bass, it would be the 55-94, hands down.
 
#65
Wood for the skyline models comes from the USA. It is shipped and then finished overseas. It comes back to the USA for assembly. So, it is actually kinda sorta American made. Is the USA two to three grand better than the skyline? Probably. Do I play well enough to justify the price difference? No. Do you play well enough? Well, only you can answer that. One thing that iscertain, I know that since I got my first skyline, my fender pbass has not left the house!
 
#67
A very close friend of many years designs basses and guitars they are made in China and it's a well known brand you would all know if I told you who. He has been laughing at me for years when I buy these basses that cost 1.5k-2k or more because he tells me how much the stuff really costs and he says if people really knew how cheap it was to make they would feel differently about how much they are paying for many instruments.

It may cost Lakland 2-3 hundred tops to make a Skyline maybe 4-6 for a US model then they add their overhead and profit and the dealers add their cut so we pay 1250 for a 2-3 hundred dollar bass.

Why U.S. Laklands cost 3k is beyond me, they are still production basses with a little better wood quality. Fodera or Smith which are made mostly by hand cost more for a good reason.

Personally I say buy what you like if it makes you happy and it's in your budget. It feels great to play a bass that looks amazing has nice wood and all the bells ans whistles.
 
#68
Stu Rose said:
A very close friend of many years designs basses and guitars they are made in China and it's a well known brand you would all know if I told you who. He has been laughing at me for years when I buy these basses that cost 1.5k-2k or more because he tells me how much the stuff really costs and he says if people really knew how cheap it was to make they would feel differently about how much they are paying for many instruments.

It may cost Lakland 2-3 hundred tops to make a Skyline maybe 4-6 for a US model then they add their overhead and profit and the dealers add their cut so we pay 1250 for a 2-3 hundred dollar bass.

Why U.S. Laklands cost 3k is beyond me, they are still production basses with a little better wood quality. Fodera or Smith which are made mostly by hand cost more for a good reason.

Personally I say buy what you like if it makes you happy and it's in your budget. It feels great to play a bass that looks amazing has nice wood and all the bells ans whistles.
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I've been to the Lakland shop many times. I've seen how much time and expertise goes into the US models. I know how much Pat Wilkins, who does the finishes on the US models, charges for a paint job. I've seen how much time is spent Pleking and checking over each Skyline after they're shipped to Chicago. I'm calling horse manure on your estimates.
 
#69
Not really

You can get any bass pleked and set up for about $135-250 full retail. The builders cost on doing his own pleking for his builds would be less then half of that. Pleking does not add significant cost to a bass.

From Mike Lull's site

"The average cost of a PLEK is $250.00 which includes a full setup and adjustment.

If you own a Lull built before January 2008, we will PLEK your Mike Lull instrument for the special price of $135.00.

A good paint job in the US would cost more then China but maybe 2-3 hundred. It still makes a US model cost no more then 1k to build.
 
#70
Stu Rose said:
Not really

You can get any bass pleked and set up for about $135-250 full retail. The builders cost on doing his own pleking for his builds would be less then half of that. Pleking does not add significant cost to a bass.

From Mike Lull's site

"The average cost of a PLEK is $250.00 which includes a full setup and adjustment.

If you own a Lull built before January 2008, we will PLEK your Mike Lull instrument for the special price of $135.00.

A good paint job in the US would cost more then China but maybe 2-3 hundred. It still makes a US model cost no more then 1k to build.
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That's a big jump from your $400-$600 guess.

Pleking was only part of the equation, and that was for Skylines. For the US models, the fretwork is done by hand, so that's more $$. Then there's the electronics and hardware, and the installation of those items. Strings, marketing, keeping the lights on, costs for tools, cases, shipping...it adds up.

I've read enough on TB and elsewhere, and known enough luthiers, to say that probably none of the small shops we talk about on this forum are getting rich making basses.
 
#71
GregC said:
I've been to the Lakland shop many times. I've seen how much time and expertise goes into the US models. I know how much Pat Wilkins, who does the finishes on the US models, charges for a paint job. I've seen how much time is spent Pleking and checking over each Skyline after they're shipped to Chicago. I'm calling horse manure on your estimates.
Click to expand...

Agreed......
 
#72
GregC said:
That's a big jump from your $400-$600 guess.

Pleking was only part of the equation, and that was for Skylines. For the US models, the fretwork is done by hand, so that's more $$. Then there's the electronics and hardware, and the installation of those items. Strings, marketing, keeping the lights on, costs for tools, cases, shipping...it adds up.

I've read enough on TB and elsewhere, and known enough luthiers, to say that probably none of the small shops we talk about on this forum are getting rich making basses.
Click to expand...

Far from it....most smaller shops do it because of the love of the instrument and the industry NOT to become rich.

I think I heard at one time ( don't quote me but) the average US bass takes about 2 full days of labor for the final assembly fret prep ( by hand) set up etc....

This DOES NOT count the cost of he bodies necks electronics paint etc.

I call horse hockey on $1 grand to build....more than that in parts and labor for sure....not mentioning rent for the buildings energy use PLEK machine rental/lease which I cannot believe is cheap....the manufacturer does not sell them from what I understand.

And dealers like to make SOME money on things they sell....they have overhead...

Do they cost $2500 to make? Nope...if they did no one could afford to make them.
 
#73
Skylines are great, I had two now I have one which is a beauty and for sale.

Lets be real, the CNC machine does care if it's cutting out a Lakland, Sadowsky, Squire or any other brand, it costs the same. The only thing that may reduce costs is bulk buying and producing.

The set-up time, fret work, electronics cost more on certain brands just not that much more.
 
#74
One more thing, even though this whole discussion Stu started is off-topic.

There are build-quality differences (and big price differences) even in the Squier line. They range from $150 to $380 at MF. And ask anyone who's played a Classic Vibe model and an Affinity back to back if they're identical.

I think the Classic Vibe models, by the way, are nice and offer a lot of value for the money. And yet it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Skylines have more expensive parts. US-made pickups and pres (except for the -01) have a lot more cost built-in than Chinese-made ones. Same with better bridges, tuners and pots. Plus, Skylines have ash bodies, while just about all Squiers are made with basswood, agathis or pine. I'm not arguing that ash is a better tonewood (not going down that rabbit hole), but good ash is certainly more expensive than those other woods.
 
#75
Greg

I think we agree on your last post. I contend however the cost different between and Skyline and US Lakland is not anywhere near the prices being charged around 2k or more.

They are all still production CNC made basses not handmade, only hand set-up. Agreed the electronics and hardware costs are more then a Squire or MIM Fender etc... but still not that much more. On a wholesale level I guess around $200.00.

My Lull Jazz is surely as well made as a US Lakland with top quality wood, paint and hardware, etc. and the prices are around mid 2k range. The Lull is in fact really the same bass more or less as a NY Sadowsky for at least 1k less. This is simply due to how much profit each company wants to make per bass but not on the cost of production itself. I would add a lot of value to the Lull as Mike himself does all the building and set-ups, can't ask for more then that.

Sorry not a Lull pitch just a comparison. Thanks for the discussion. :D
 
#76
Well, because the retail parts of a bass add up to $500 is not a reason to expect it to cost $500 in a store.

Cost of a bass (or any consumer good) will include many expenses besides material costs, such as labor/ salaries, facilities, transit, debt service, r&d, coffee machine in break room...etc.
 
#77
I don't understand the lure of something being made by hand. Humans have bad days, humans get sick, humans get in a hurry, humans get careless. Machines turn out consistent quality. CNC machined wood work and pleked frets make for a nice instrument provided quality materials are used.
 

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