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Lamination / glue-up / alignment Q

pilotjones

pilotjones

Nov 8, 2001
9,246
893
US-NY-NYC
#1
I've got a question on glue-up. I'm interested in any ideas, and doubly interested if someone's got a real-life proven method.

As time and many threads have shown, there are some great minds and skilled and wonderfully experienced people here, so I'm confident there will be some good insights.



As background, we've seen plenty of builds where people glued boards side-by-side, for either a vertical neck lam buildup or two body wings being glued to a neck beam on a neck through -- this being followed up by planer or sander passes to make the top and bottom surfaces even.

I am considering something a bit more difficult for build #2 though. But the payoff would be the kind of "simplicity through disguised complexity" that is a hallmark of great craft. It would involve having horizontal layers match up, across a vertical glue boundary. (And if I'm not mistaken, Andrew (ARose) may require this for his part in the TB LXL /AlexEddy build.)


So my question is this: Is there a reliable way to glue up two boards side-by-side, so that they stay (at least nearly) perfectly aligned vertically, and need little or no surfacing? So that, in addition, identical horizontal layers within each would continue to be aligned across the glue boundary?
 
#5
When I went to make a Herringbone-style Jazz bass out of Padauk/Yellowheart, I cut strips like this. I was originally planning on cutting 1" strips of 14-18" length, then dry clamping them and surfacing ALL the cutting faces and gluing those (I wanted strips 1" in width). What I ended up doing was ditching the surfacing effort and gluing them on the already planed sides of the wood (4/4 pieces of lumber both at .95" thickness each).

This worked out well, as when I clamped the pieces, I put the rough cut side flat on the counter, so the only levelling I had to do was on the top side of all the glued up pieces.
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However, this method was...time consuming to say the least. I'm now planning to create another one of these, but with tweaks to the Herringbone process.

The plan is to use my table saw and (adjusting for blade kerf) cut strips .60" wide from Wood 1 & 2. Then I will flip the strips so they become .60" tall, instead of .60" wide. Gluing all these strips should (in theory) yield me a rectangular herringbone "blank" of uniform thickness (.60") and width (strips .95" wide due to 4/4 lumber). Taking the blank, I'll basically bookmatch it on a bandsaw, yielding a Herringbone drop-top just over .25" in thickness, with room for sanding.

So, to answer your question: it is something I've thought long about. Essentially you make sure you made very straight, equi-distance cuts in the blank, and flip them - leaving the planed sides of the wood as gluing faces, and the table-sawn sides as the top and bottom. This should give you laminates of equal height and width; height being a derivative of the width at which you cut, and width being a derivative of the height of the blank lumber (4/4, 6/4, 8/4 etc.)

An interesting way to think of, as I believe you are getting at, "flipping the axis" when doing laminate work.
 
#6
A perfectly true table and a vac bag? Might not work if your lams are too thin. You could also put a thin vertical lam in between your horizontal lams, to hide small errors in alignment. A vac bag wouldn't be hard to make, all you need is a reverse pump (you can make that out of a bicycle pump) a clear garbage bag, duct tape and a nipple.

lowsound
 
#7
iamlowsound said:
A perfectly true table and a vac bag? Might not work if your lams are too thin. You could also put a thin vertical lam in between your horizontal lams, to hide small errors in alignment. A vac bag wouldn't be hard to make, all you need is a reverse pump (you can make that out of a bicycle pump) a clear garbage bag, duct tape and a nipple.

lowsound
Click to expand...

LcDVc.jpg
 
#11
iamlowsound said:
A perfectly true table and a vac bag? Might not work if your lams are too thin. You could also put a thin vertical lam in between your horizontal lams, to hide small errors in alignment. A vac bag wouldn't be hard to make, all you need is a reverse pump (you can make that out of a bicycle pump) a clear garbage bag, duct tape and a nipple.

lowsound
Click to expand...
Is there a way to put side clamping pressure on something in a vac bag without destroying the bag? The plates would be only maybe .750 thick, so I don't think there would be enough sideways clamping force generated by vacuum.

And...can you seriously make a vacuum pump out of a bicycle pump? (McGuyver indeed!)
 
#12
octaedro7 said:
I think I did just what you´re describing by means of presses and straight edges but I´m maybe not understanding what you are saying (my English skills would be the ones to blame)

WP_0000714.jpg


I didn´t have to do any planing after this one.

Hope I´m on topic here...
Click to expand...
Yes, that's pretty much what I was originally thinking of, except that I might not be able to brace it quite that way.

(No problem with English.)
 
#13
pilotjones said:
Is there a way to put side clamping pressure on something in a vac bag without destroying the bag? The plates would be only maybe .750 thick, so I don't think there would be enough sideways clamping force generated by vacuum.

And...can you seriously make a vacuum pump out of a bicycle pump? (McGuyver indeed!)
Click to expand...

I would think that it wouldn't be too hard to get the sidewise clamping pressure, if it is, just find a way to glue it up on its side. To turn the bicycle pump into a vac pump, just take it apart and switch the in/out. Most pumps should be able to hold the vacuum.

lowsound
 
#14
iamlowsound said:
A perfectly true table and a vac bag? Might not work if your lams are too thin. You could also put a thin vertical lam in between your horizontal lams, to hide small errors in alignment. A vac bag wouldn't be hard to make, all you need is a reverse pump (you can make that out of a bicycle pump) a clear garbage bag, duct tape and a nipple.

lowsound
Click to expand...
Forgot to mention, while I also had thought about the using vertical lams like that to hide mismatch, I'm intentionally trying to avoid them.
 
#15
iamlowsound said:
I would think that it wouldn't be too hard to get the sidewise clamping pressure, if it is, just find a way to glue it up on its side. To turn the bicycle pump into a vac pump, just take it apart and switch the in/out. Most pumps should be able to hold the vacuum.

lowsound
Click to expand...
I think you'd have to be able to reverse the piston seal too. At least when I was a kid, they were cup washers, so it would naturally seal on the push, but not on a draw.
 
#18
Smilodon said:
Is there a way for you to first glue the center pieces as a T-shape(or a double T) and use that as a base/jig for the next layers of the lam.?

(Does that make sense?)
Click to expand...

I was thinking of something like that also (if I understand correctly). It would involve gluing on two perpendicular surfaces simultaneously. Can that be done successfully?
 
#19
I have used blocks of wood covered in Release aluminum foil and it works great even when gluing angled bodies and wings to a neck.

I know it's not the same way you are talking about, but perhaps it might help to inspire.
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Good luck,
Dirk
 
#20
pilotjones said:
I was thinking of something like that also (if I understand correctly). It would involve gluing on two perpendicular surfaces simultaneously. Can that be done successfully?
Click to expand...

I have never tried it myself. I'm just throwing out some ideas.

I guess clamping could be a bit difficult, but if you combine clamps in both directions with some "frame clamps" or "belt clamps" I guess it could work.
 

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