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Double Bass Large diaphragm, small diaphragm or dynamic mic?

#21
I'm the same way, if I can use a great old LDC, that's my first choice. I don't normally have access to mics like that so I jump at the chance. I was able to record with a studio owned U47FET one time. That studio also has a U47 but it was being used in that session as a room mic for drums. I also used their RCA 44 ribbon on an Ampeg B15. When I record myself lately I usually use an A-T 4047 which is really good for the money. I got an old Film Industries ribbon mic not long ago, it has low output but the sound is so natural and realistic that I've been using it on all kinds of sources. The proximity effect is a bit of a challenge on that mic, unless you want crazy amounts of bottom, but I understand the Beyer M160 design mitigates that effect.

Wednesday I'm going to track some bass using a KEL HM1 which is a cheap SDC without a hyped high end response, and another mic yet to be determined. I did a stereo recording of one of my groups last week with a pair of those KELs, it turned out pretty well other than the fact that it accurately captured every last bit of the boominess of the huge untreated room with wooden floors we were playing in.

Cheers.
 
#22
I love the sound of ribbons, but for live use they scare me. What I learned from Jim Anderson, who has a lot of Grammy's under his belt was using a stereo pair of small diameter Sankens right in front of the bridge. When using just one of the same mics in the same position the sound wasn"t nearly as good. Maybe one of our more technically informed counterparts can explain to me why. I like the AT large dia. mics. If anything, like the ATM35 that I use live, if they err it's on the side of fullness and warmth. I like the AT's more than the Shure or 414's. I did a little demo project for a friend a while ago where the engineer didn't have great mics, but was a smart guy with good ears. He used a cheaper (can't remember which) large dia. mic with the ATM35 clamped on the top of the bridge facing toward the body above the center of the bridge. The sound was VERY surprisingly good. As good as Jim Anderson's? No, but closer than it had a right to be. I'm still determined to save up for the DPA version of the B&K. Mounted with rubber bands between the feet, it was the best live sound I've ever gotten.
 
#24
Can I tack a question on here regarding clipons

Anyone try the ＳＤ　Ｓystem　ＬＣＭ100 , there is a used one for sale on auction
I have been looking for a ATM35 ,
There are alot of new ones for sale but very few used ones

Thanks

Robert VanLane
 
#25
Mike Arnopol said:
...Wouldn't use a pickup. ( I was a LaFaro wannabee) That is still a great mic and if I were a mic-only guy I'd consider one of those wrapped in foam under the bridge. After high school, I switched to all Spiros and an Underwood and became a Mraz wannabee. (still am, I guess)
Click to expand...

Mike,
The Sunday at the Village Vanguard Recordings with Scott are IMHO a beautiful example of what the bass should sound like, but you can't see the mic. Mraz played in St. Louis a while back and he was using the Wilson Pickup into a GK, so I guess anything can work. In my modest way I've always aspired to get a sound as close to my bass. Don't laugh but the AMT is getting me pretty close. Neumann's get my bass perfectly.

Ric
 
#26
Lots of guys like the AMT. I don't, but I've heard Scott Colley get a really nice sound with it.LaFaro's sound on the Sunday album was really the Holy Grail for me. If you want to hear some of my favorite recorded bass sounds, anything on the Contemporary label is awesome. LaFaro, Ray Brown, Leroy Vinegar, Red Mitchell----all of their sounds on Contemporary are amazing. Funny thing is that my least favorite bass sounds are by Rudy VanGelder. Check out the difference in Ron's sound on My Funny Valentine as opposed to the Blue Note stuff.
 
#31
D McCartney said:
You will want to get 2 of them, they're $1765.00 each.:hyper::crying:
Click to expand...
Like I said earlier (post #15), I've seen and heard a single DPA 4021 (yes that's the one bribass) w/ DB for live use. Comes with a tiny shock mount thing that can be strung between the afterlengths of the A and D, more or less pointed at the top in between the bridge feet. Not sure where the thing about needing 2 is coming from D. Mike A. did mention "stereo pair of small diameter Sankens" earlier, but I think those were different mics. And I think maybe the DPA's (or B&Ks) he referred to were different too, but maybe I am all wet.
 
#32
Yeah, I was just talking about studio recording. That's two facing the bridge, which won't work in a live situation with drums, etc. in close proximity. For live the compromise is getting the most bass sound in the mic to minimize feedback and picking up other instruments. Yes, that DPA is the B&K I was talking about. For me, it's worth saving the bread for one or getting one used. The ATM35 (or 350, I guess)n is a great compromise. The ATM is warmer and less analytical than the Shure, Beyer, or AKG of the same type. I was playing a live radio broadcast in Europe somewhere where the the engineer had a hot-rodded KM84 that he wanted to use on the bass (between bridge feet---it was a full band live thing) I just couldn't get a full enough sound. Anemic and wanky. I sheepishly suggested trying the ATM35. It sounded tons better and he admitted it and used the AT. The DPA has the fullness of the ATM35 but with astounding detail. By the way, I've been using the EA Doubler for a bit and it is awesome as far as combining mic and pickup. Variable ( 0 to 180 degree) phase is a godsend in terms of combining.
 
#33
Mike Arnopol said:
LaFaro's sound on the Sunday album was really the Holy Grail for me. If you want to hear some of my favorite recorded bass sounds, anything on the Contemporary label is awesome. LaFaro, Ray Brown, Leroy Vinegar, Red Mitchell----all of their sounds on Contemporary are amazing.
Click to expand...

To me these are the watershed recordings for bass sound, along with the Oscar Pettiford and Lucky Tompson recordings and Paul Chambers on the Riverside and Columbla label.


Mike Arnopol said:
Funny thing is that my least favorite bass sounds are by Rudy VanGelder. Check out the difference in Ron's sound on My Funny Valentine as opposed to the Blue Note stuff.
Click to expand...

+1

The Bass Sound on some Creed's Recordings on Verve and CTI sound weird to me to. I think that Bassists/Recording Engineers fell in love with the DI from either the amp or the pickup some time in the 80's cause if that was the sound of a mic on those records it must have been broken.
 
#34
I was talking about the classic Blue Note sides. I would audition great stereo speakers using the classic Wayne Blue Note sides. If I could hear the bass pitches on those sides I knew I would dig the speakers. The bass on those sides has so little pitch and rythym definition. And it was mixed too far back. Of course all of the early direct piezo recordings were off the chart on the wanky scale.
 
#37
Mike

How are you using the ATM35 live?
Is it plugged into the AT8532 and then the Doubler?

Am planning on getting another EA head , either a Micro or Doubler

Thanks

Robert VanLane

Mike Arnopol said:
Yeah, I was just talking about studio recording. That's two facing the bridge, which won't work in a live situation with drums, etc. in close proximity. For live the compromise is getting the most bass sound in the mic to minimize feedback and picking up other instruments. Yes, that DPA is the B&K I was talking about. For me, it's worth saving the bread for one or getting one used. The ATM35 (or 350, I guess)n is a great compromise. The ATM is warmer and less analytical than the Shure, Beyer, or AKG of the same type. I was playing a live radio broadcast in Europe somewhere where the the engineer had a hot-rodded KM84 that he wanted to use on the bass (between bridge feet---it was a full band live thing) I just couldn't get a full enough sound. Anemic and wanky. I sheepishly suggested trying the ATM35. It sounded tons better and he admitted it and used the AT. The DPA has the fullness of the ATM35 but with astounding detail. By the way, I've been using the EA Doubler for a bit and it is awesome as far as combining mic and pickup. Variable ( 0 to 180 degree) phase is a godsend in terms of combining.
Click to expand...
 
#38
Mike Arnopol said:
I bought a Beyer 160 ribbon mic.Wouldn't use a pickup. ( I was a LaFaro wannabee) That is still a great mic and if I were a mic-only guy I'd consider one of those wrapped in foam under the bridge.
Click to expand...

I have a couple of Beyer M160's and I frequently use one to mic my bass for live sound as well as live recording. I don't think it would work well under the bridge, but I don't mind having a mic on a stand in front of me.

I may regret it one day. Almost regretted it this past weekend. We were playing a corporate party and a guest wanted to make an announcement. He reached down to take the M160 off my mic stand in front of my bass. Just before I was going to smack him, I noticed someone from the hotel had a mic from the house system and I was able to be more tactful and point him towards it.
 
#39
The ATM35 is plugged into whatever the 9v power supply number is sans the 9 volt battery. Then into the Doubler with an xlr cable. Question for one of our more brainy guys. The ATM35 comes with an adapter box/power supply. This box takes a 9 volt battery and can be used if no phantom is available. It can also be used with the on/off switch turned off if fed by 48 volt phantom. On my Monday steady gig (green Mill) tyhe have a Pro 35. The engineer there changed the plug from the mini xlr to a regular xlr. He has the mic plugged directly into the standard 48 volt and it works fine. I just got a new pickup from Toby Timber which is essentially a small condenser. He says that it requires 9 volts and that the 48 volts can't be applied directly. So, how come the ATM can take either the 9 volts or 48 volts and Toby's can only take 9v?
 

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