Lars Ulrich... How dare he!

[socialleper]

I never believe these "fixed" versions people make. You can't take a stereo recording a pump up just one instrument, it is physically impossible. You can enhance frequencies, but it will turn up everything in that frequency range.
Unless you have the original mastering tapes you can't do this. My hunch is that these merely having someone else's playing superimposed over the recording.

 

[Bassmann79]

Everyone keeps focusing on the lack of bass when in fact there is a bigger issue at hand when it comes to AJFA!

Flemming Rasmussen has clearly stated that the album we got was NOT the album he recorded, the guitar/bass tones, drum sound were completely different and very solid. they destroyed it in final mix/mastering and now Steven Thompson answered the bass question but again if they re-release AJFA then release it the way Flemming Rasmussen produced it to be.

 

[higain617]

I gave this some thought a while back and have to say that those early albums would have been worse with a skilled drummer. Lars' simple style played to Hetfield's riffs which further accentuated their power. Hetfield was the rhythmic anchor of the band, and a wanky Dream Theater type drummer would have ruined that.

 

[Canadian APII]

Also, wasn't that Jason's debut album? That would have made it all the more glaring.

I can see why he allowed it. Being the "new" band member, you don't want to rock the boat. Totally understandable. Last night I saw a youtube video with enhanced bass. Listening to them side by side the enhanced one sounds so much more complete. I would buy a remixed version in a heart beat.

 

[shaboda]

I have often wondered how they raised the levels on the bass track without the master tape.. AND -IF- someone actually played parts over top of the actual mix, then I give props to that player... because it sounds spot on to me.

 

[sifi76]

I have often wondered how they raised the levels on the bass track without the master tape.. AND -IF- someone actually played parts over top of the actual mix, then I give props to that player... because it sounds spot on to me.

Yeah that mix has a very 'live' feel to it, and tbh this is why the only versions of justice songs I like are the one's they play live. It's probably why bootlegs of the justice tour like damaged justice 89, were so popular after, and the reason the live binge and purge box set sold so well. For instance, the concert version of harvester of sorrow always sounds so full, it's a good indication of what 'might' have been given people's ego's had been checked a little.

 

[Sixgunn]

I've always HATED Metallica. Kirk Hammet just ruins them. He's SO awful!!

 

[Jack Butler]

I hate to go away from the AJFA topic but seriously...

...

That version of Blackened is one of my favorite live songs...from any band. I felt like they were at the top of their game. Musically of course, but just the passion. James' opening riff there just kills. Those were the days...

 

[HeavyJazz]

I didn't even realize there was a bass track on "Justice..." I figured they were going for that AM radio sound on purpose!

 

[TMARK]

They made the right call dropping him out of the mix. So many of those iconic riffs and fills, like in AJFA the song just turn to mush and Jason had no idea what to play for them. Listen to One on that AJF Jason video, the bass part is terrible and it's this wide open clean tone Bm to G progression lots of us could have a field day with. Jason was fast, but he didn't know how to write. When he wasn't exactly doubling the guitars, he had no idea what to play. That said, Shortest Straw sounds awesome with the bass.

I just think that album had some pretty tight guitars and is almost iconic just for its sonic landscape. First album I ever heard sound like jackhammers.

I agree 100%. I like the production. When I bought the CD when it came out I played it on my dad's Hi-Fi system, (McIntosh amps, B&W speakers, etc.), it blew my mind. I even like the no snare. It was a real departure from what was going on previously.

 

[karl_em_all]

Because it should have been full of bass. How do you even come up with these questions?

I think the problem with the production on AJFA was that there was no room left for the bass. The bottom end is being carried completely by the drums being pushed to the limit and the super scooped guitar tone. They sacrificed the bass totally to get it that way.

It is an awesome album in my opinion. Great songs with excellent execution. Speaker killing mix.

 

[Jay Corwin]

The only people who care about the bass on AJFA are bass players on talkbass who love Metallica. The average metal head couldn't care less, because as thrash albums go - that one hits it out of the park the way it was released.

 

[sifi76]

I think the problem with the production on AJFA was that there was no room left for the bass. The bottom end is being carried completely by the drums being pushed to the limit and the super scooped guitar tone. They sacrificed the bass totally to get it that way.

It is an awesome album in my opinion. Great songs with excellent execution. Speaker killing mix.

I agree, you can do a lot worse than Justice, and the as I see it a lot of tb'er's will have a degree of bias towards the bass sound, simply because we are all bassists, and as such I guess we place a high value on that tonal range. I guess in some cases we can take offense when the bass is not a factor, primary or otherwise, in a mix. But I think the issue here isnt so much that there wasn't room for the bass, rather that they concentrated on the wrong end of the mix, the low mids should make jason's line's stand out, after all the pick playing he does lends a agressive attack, which should tonally lend itself to the midrange, there is a thickness of tone missing. Instead what we get is barely a whisper. It's not that the bass is missing, or that it is not pronounced in the mix, in the right range or frequency, it could easily fit just under the guitars, it doesn't have to override the drums. As it stands it's like they went 'all bass or nothing' and cut the mid frequency section entirely, leaving you with a barely audible version of what could have been.

 

[cheechi]

as a huge Metallica fan I have to say this is my least favourite of the era, but still a very good album. You had a lot of different things going on from Lars & James not seeing eye to eye with each other (instead of just them vs the rest of the band), no Cliff as a mediator and of course writing the guitar/bass harmonic passages, wanting to bring in more and different sounds than just speed metal (into the studio at least), James with his singing lessons, MTV, rock changing around them, iirc producer issues, and who knows what else.

The sound of Justice is different than most bassists would want but I can't really say it's some tragedy that needed fixing. it sounds harsh, jagged, painful. Shrill. That's the sound they wanted I think. Now that we know all the songs and we are all bassists of course we want that fat low end sound to be more prominent in the mix but I feel like it came out how all 4 of them wanted it at the time.

 

[Fat Steve]

Lars is a schmuck. That being said, I've been a big Metallica fan for most of my life. Was 11 when the Black album came out, and it was the single most driving force to get me into playing music. I even enjoy St Anger from time to time. The only thing Metallica has put out that makes me want to punch kittens is Lulu. And that's because I absolutely cannot stand Lou Reed.

It is refreshing to see all the haters out in full force though.

 

[Fat Steve]

I never believe these "fixed" versions people make. You can't take a stereo recording a pump up just one instrument, it is physically impossible. You can enhance frequencies, but it will turn up everything in that frequency range.
Unless you have the original mastering tapes you can't do this. My hunch is that these merely having someone else's playing superimposed over the recording.

I know that at least with One, the tracks were lifted from Guitar Hero or Rock Band, where the bass is at audible volume.

 

[punchdrunk]

Huge Metallica fan growing up... I gotta say the AJFA is probably my fave metal album period. Killing playing from everyone, and Lars just playing very uniquely. No other metal album sounds anything like it.
I would buy a remastered version tho. Those guys are leaving major $ on the table.

 

[Jazz Ad]

This really is a matter of taste. In a way, the black signed the entrance of metal into mainstream.
Before that for the general audience it was long hair junkies making "hard rock" noise.

A lot of changes in the black belong to pop more than metal or at least, straight heavy metal rather than thrash.
The songs are no Orion but they're well written, well played with a gigantic tone and a stellar production.

 

[Fat Steve]

Some folks would've been happier if they just re-released Kill 'Em All over and over again every 3 years.

 

[flam]

Honestly, I love the mix on AJFA. It's such a harsh sound, it really fits the anger the album carries. As much as bass would be nice, it almost doesn't fit the music. Cliff made sure he was known, but Metallica was never about the bass.

As for Lars, he was actually pretty talented in a subtle way. He knew how to fit in and add to the music, instead of doing whatever and ruining everything like what is popular in modern death metal.