I'm glad Howard Stern is around. You wouldn't hear a story like this in most places. Very informative to say the least.
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Lars Ulrich... How dare he!
- Thread starter 48thStreetCustom
- Start date
I'm glad Howard Stern is around. You wouldn't hear a story like this in most places. Very informative to say the least.
A friend of mine who is a very talented player recently re recorded the tracks to ajfa. Tell Mr what you think.
Dropbox - And Justice For Bass
Dropbox - And Justice For Bass
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that, Bob (not Trujillo), at the very least composed most of if not all the bass lines on "St. Anger" let alone finishing the recording of said album. Trujillo may have done some mixes after the fact.
My question being, who is really "to blame" for the "creative direction" they took?
Lars or Bob?
I am fully aware of the fact that Bob was not the producer on "...And Justice For All". Bob is no Flemming. Yet many, at least some, would argue that Bob was the one who kept them "in the mix" (my quote and no pun intended).
For me "...And Justice For All" was a crunchy lyrical extension of "Master Of Puppets" much like "Master Of Puppets" was a musical extension of "Ride The Lighting".
Oh, wait, this was supposed to be about Lars.
Sorry, no comment.
My question being, who is really "to blame" for the "creative direction" they took?
Lars or Bob?
I am fully aware of the fact that Bob was not the producer on "...And Justice For All". Bob is no Flemming. Yet many, at least some, would argue that Bob was the one who kept them "in the mix" (my quote and no pun intended).
Yep! I bought this album on cassette and played the sh*t out of it, never thinking about whether or not "Newkid" was audible. By the way that cassette still plays, seriously, that's not in a metaphoric sense.
For me "...And Justice For All" was a crunchy lyrical extension of "Master Of Puppets" much like "Master Of Puppets" was a musical extension of "Ride The Lighting".
Oh, wait, this was supposed to be about Lars.
Sorry, no comment.
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Have a listen to any Mercyful Fate record from the early to mid 80's and you'll hear the bass loud and clear.
While as a bassist I find the remixed AJFA tracks more interesting, I still prefer the originals more. Partially because it wasn't mixed with the bass in mind, but also the harsh, cold atmosphere it lends to the album strangely fit the tone and feeling of the album well. Newsteds tone also sounds like it is competing way too hard with James' and just kinda mucks up the guitars buzzsaw sound. I think a cleaner tone with more emphasis on the low end would have suited much better.
Maybe that was the problem. Lars heard it, disliked it much like I did, but instead of taking time to work it out with Jason, opted to eliminate the bass completely. Douchey regardless, but it sounds like not even Jason was none too pleased with the original bass tracks either.
Anyways, AJFA is my least favorite of the original (cough true cough) Metallica albums, but its up against some pretty stiff competition. Its just strange to me, you listen to ...Justice and you can hear some serious change going on compared to their earlier albums, much more refined. I can only imagine the band we would have today if they had continued evolving in that direction instead of turning into the hard rock band they became starting with the Black album. Maybe we should blame the video for One and MTV.
Maybe that was the problem. Lars heard it, disliked it much like I did, but instead of taking time to work it out with Jason, opted to eliminate the bass completely. Douchey regardless, but it sounds like not even Jason was none too pleased with the original bass tracks either.
Anyways, AJFA is my least favorite of the original (cough true cough) Metallica albums, but its up against some pretty stiff competition. Its just strange to me, you listen to ...Justice and you can hear some serious change going on compared to their earlier albums, much more refined. I can only imagine the band we would have today if they had continued evolving in that direction instead of turning into the hard rock band they became starting with the Black album. Maybe we should blame the video for One and MTV.
If only we could have a AJFA that sounded like the Rassmussen produced Morbid Angel's Covenant. (though Trey's kind of non-trebly guitar tone might not fit at all
)
So far I like it. Nicely done. I just added the And Justice for Jason album to my iPhone, so I'll add this too. Thanks for posting!
That's so stupid that lars ulrich doesn't want the bass track to be noticeable on the ajfa album. From what I heard was true, the reason why the bass track wasn't noticeable on that album was that james and lars were mourning the lost of cliff burton. I can understand that they lost a good friend and a phenomenal musician, but still it so stupid that they wouldn't the bass track to be noticeable on the remastered edition of the ajfa album. I've heard a fan made version of this album called and justice for jason and I thought it sounded phenomenal. nothing seems to be lost on the entire band mix.
You should read this whole thread.
I've read the entire article on facebook. I think it's stupid that lars ulrich refuses to have the bass track to be noticeable on the ajfa album. and as heard on the and justice for jason edition of the album, the songs sounded a lot better with the bass track being noticeable. nothing's lost in the mix and it sounded really heavy. just the way a metal album was meant to sound. and just to be funny, I'll bet that lars would have a conniption if he hears the song I'm all about that bass. lol
during the recording of their fifth album
Producer: Do you always start on the downbeat?
Lars : What's a downbeat?
Producer made him take lessons for 2 hours each day before he would record him hehe
Producer: Do you always start on the downbeat?
Lars : What's a downbeat?
Producer made him take lessons for 2 hours each day before he would record him hehe
I remember when I first heard the remixes of "...and Justice for All" online with the bass turned up and as a bass player, I was torn. I NEVER call for "less bass" in anything. But, when I heard Jason's incredibly sloppy playing on "Blackened" with his mind-numbingly horrible tone juxtaposed against Hetfield's super tight controlled precise rhythm, I knew that this, if fact, was one instance where a recording sounded much, much, MUCH better with the bass turned way, way, WAY down.
I COMPLETELY understand why they took Jason out of the mix. You just can't go from the thickness, excitement, identifiable style, tone, and metal mastery of Cliff Burton to the ass-cheese omelette of Jason Newsted without drastically changing the band. Which, coincidentally, is exactly what Metallica did when they finally turned Jason up on their next album, aka the sell-out of the century. Jason's style, antics, lack of finesse, tone, sloppiness, and musical disability fit 90's era "'Tallica" perfectly. Just horrible.
I would assume one would either have to break a few fingers or at the very least tape a few fingers together to play like this:
For maximum laughter at the suckage contained therein, just check out around the 4 minute mark; the sounds of pure ass will delight you.
I COMPLETELY understand why they took Jason out of the mix. You just can't go from the thickness, excitement, identifiable style, tone, and metal mastery of Cliff Burton to the ass-cheese omelette of Jason Newsted without drastically changing the band. Which, coincidentally, is exactly what Metallica did when they finally turned Jason up on their next album, aka the sell-out of the century. Jason's style, antics, lack of finesse, tone, sloppiness, and musical disability fit 90's era "'Tallica" perfectly. Just horrible.
I would assume one would either have to break a few fingers or at the very least tape a few fingers together to play like this:
For maximum laughter at the suckage contained therein, just check out around the 4 minute mark; the sounds of pure ass will delight you.
Come on now, you are talking out your arsch...Cliff did NOT have a "good" bass tone. It was a farty tone and his playing was far from "tight" and on point with Hetfield's tight picking style. There was nothing wrong with Jason's tone, funny that you mention Blackened as that was Jason's riff and his first writing credit with Metallica so how could he not play his own riff right?
You obviously have an agenda in your blatant defense of Cliff Burton while trashing Newsted. The fact is Newsted had not yet grasped the real rythum section role until the "Black" album and there are various reasons why the Justice tracks are sloppy. Did you not know that nobody produced those sessions? He did what he knew to do at the time, start the track, blast it out and move on..even I had to re-do tracks multiple times in a recording session but Newsted states it was go, done and next..go done, move on next....From the Black album on, he WAS produced and coached (as everyone should be, that's the job of a producer) his bass formed a solid foundation and he really developed into a solid bassist, see his work outside of Shitallica as well.
You can nitpick almost every musician to fit your agenda. Shall I do it with Cliff? Ok, not hard...here you go:
If this is "tone" then wow..it's a mess...
Whereas I don't have an agenda to knock someone down, with the sound and type of music Metallica had going, this "tone" and playing fit well beneath the wall of guitars so when listening to it all together it's quite fine. Also remember that with their style, the bass doesn't always form it's traditional role of rythum section hold down, it merely doubles the exact notes as the guitars and that was precisely what Newsted new to do at that time, so Justice was mainly double guitars but it did have some bass moments here and there
So here is a nice bass line holding down the rythum section quite nicely and again lended punch and overall a heavy rythum section - People give these albums hell but what's funny they have some of the best guitar tones/drum sound and production of their catalog - if DM would have had those values it would have been epic.
One last thing is you pick out a live performance and trash it, that is one performance out of how many hundreds? Live is NEVER perfect, you are musician and know that but imagine performing live multiplied by 100 what we will ever do and you can be a little forgivable yes? Your 4 minute mark you mentioned, yep not that great..but in context it's not the "OMFG" moment you have made it to be. Again, I can pick out almost any musician and find something live like that...
Cliff was NOT the greatest bassist to roam the Earth but you know what he doesn't have to be, he was good for what he did and what those 4 people were able to create when together is what mattered. He died tragically but that doesn't immediately propel one to "God" status...there is no "best" musician at anything...there are however millions of "great" musicians some of whom YOU personally will consider the best to your ear. Cliff can be appreciated for what he did in his short time and how he did it, Jason is no different as he contributed what he did from 1986-2001. I like both for different reasons, Cliff had some Lemmy/Ramones/Punk vibe, coupled with his finger picking style and that meshed into that Metallica thrash sound we love. Jason has a Geezer/Lemmy/Punk vibe and attacked the bass in a completely different way, he didn't just pick the strings, he attacked the strings and has a very aggressive pick attack. Two different approaches, they are two different human beings afterall.
Again, I think it is better to take away the positive in both Cliff, Newsted and even Robert's playing, they each bring something different.
A lot of Cliff's love seems to come from the fact he played with his fingers, I get a chuckle out of the kids who make that an iconic thing and make it this scale of who is great and who is not. It's not, it was a preference and something that developed in him as a musician same as why Hetfield downpicks while someone like say Dimebag alternate picked more.
You might like this interview, he has remained a very down to earth person: Check out 14:19 specifically as it might address some of your comments on Justice and the Bass, 2 days..recorded in 2 days..***?
I will leave it with this, guess why I started playing bass? The kids told me if I got a bass/amp/distortion pedal I would sound just like...can you guess who? Cliff shaging Burton...yes sir....Cliff was why I picked up a bass....needless to say I got the bass/amp/distortion and sounded NOTHING like him but alas it didn't matter. Pick or fingers? Started with pick because of...yep..Newsted...love his attack (hate bass players who strum pick a bass but thats another thing altogether)...wasn't until later I played with fingers and to this day I only use my fingers, feels normal and weird to use a pick now, I like the sound and it fits better for me and it's something just developed over 20+yrs or so
Cheers...
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I read yesterday that Lars was the original manager of the Motorhead fan club of the USA.
I take back everything bad I ever said. Oh wait, I don't think I ever did.
I take back everything bad I ever said. Oh wait, I don't think I ever did.
The polished black album was fine but I liked it much more when Lars didn't care what you called a down best.
One could argue that Bob Rock changed them in a way that can never be repaired.
I read this several months ago and at the same time but not sure where I read that the main motivation for turning down the bass was to get that raw boom box sound where the bass does not come through very well.
