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Double Bass LDS 3-way 1x8 and Acme B-1 comparison

#41
I'm using 14 gauge over very short (about one foot from the Focus to the LDS and about two feet to the B-1). A lot of cables out there are 14 gauge but many of them have an extra insulating sleeve around them. I got 14 gauge with just one insulation sleeve around the two insulated conductors. It's a little less protected if someone was to step on it or it was to snag on something but that's not going to happen and it helps with fitting everything through the hole Don put in the LDS compartment.

I just got some 14 gauge wire and some Speakon connectors and put them together myself. I don't mind paying for expensive cables if I feel I need them but in this case, it is easy to make them yourself and I wanted custom lengths.
 
#42
I played last night in a huge ballroom filled with about two hundred people - very loud. Piano, bass, drums. Unfortunately I did not have a chance to AB the cabs and in fact I felt like I need both cabs together - I was using mostly the pickup and had the master at about 50%. Together they sounded great but then again it was not the best gig to allow me to really listen to the tone. What I do know is that the B-1 was really pumping out those low notes especially the sub-E notes on the extension - very nice.
 
#43
Adrian Cho said:
I'm using 14 gauge over very short (about one foot from the Focus to the LDS and about two feet to the B-1). A lot of cables out there are 14 gauge but many of them have an extra insulating sleeve around them. I got 14 gauge with just one insulation sleeve around the two insulated conductors. It's a little less protected if someone was to step on it or it was to snag on something but that's not going to happen and it helps with fitting everything through the hole Don put in the LDS compartment.

I just got some 14 gauge wire and some Speakon connectors and put them together myself. I don't mind paying for expensive cables if I feel I need them but in this case, it is easy to make them yourself and I wanted custom lengths.
Click to expand...


14-gague over a very short run like that is all anyone would need for such equipment. In fact, it's even overkill. That's the gague I would pick even for longer runs.
 
#45
Adrian Cho said:
...I don't mind paying for expensive cables if I feel I need them but in this case, it is easy to make them yourself and I wanted custom lengths.
Click to expand...
I know this isn't really this thread, but since it's been brought up...I've heard both sides of the 'exotic' cables argument. One side, perfectly enunciated by DRURB, says that the claims of most high-end cable companies are bunk, as well as the other side - that these cables do improve your sound. It seems as if the majority of professional recording studios use 'exotic' cables as well as a large population on talkbass and throughout the sound industry. I do as well, although I stay fairly low on the exotic scale. This is not a winnable argument - I've been around it for decades and both sides are as entrenched as ever although the exotic cable industry has grown by leaps and bounds over that time. Obviously you have great ears and are very sensitive to sound. Maybe some day you'll borrow some to find out what you hear.
 
#46
I'm not disputing that good quality cables are worth it although it really depends on what you're talking about. Many guys I know use crap cables and could definitely use an upgrade. I've never used crap and always buy the best thing I can find. I did actually look for Monster speaker cables around here but no one stocks them. And I knew in this case I wanted custom lengths because any stock lengths were just way too long for my rig.

When I was in a shop asking about custom cables, one of the guys showed me the really good cables they had and what they did to put them together and convinced me I could do it myself. He gave me a length of cable from their spool that they use for making custom cables and sold me the Speakon connectors. With those connectors there's no soldering and basically I am not entirely sure what could be added to the cables I made that would improve the sound noticeably. Just get decent cable, strip it, and screw everything into the connectors.

I think most people know that I'm not the kind to skimp on gear. I have more expensive bass amplification gear than any upright-only player I know of in my town. However in this case, I just figured that what I had would be more than sufficient. If I get a chance to try a Monster cable, I will do so.
 
#48
Monster is the tip of the iceberg on better cables. I use Studio Pro 1000's for instrument and speaker from www.wildwestelectronics.com, a Monster internet store or from Low Down Sound. I order custom sized models which are done in 1-2 days at the San Francisco factory at no extra charge. The orders take about 7-10 days to get to me with free shipping when I do it with wildwestelectronics. In fact, a 2' Studio Pro 1000 cable which is their best, would run around US$35 plus shipping. There are lots of others out there. There's a good shop in London Ontario...
 
#49
macmrkt said:
I know this isn't really this thread, but since it's been brought up...I've heard both sides of the 'exotic' cables argument. One side, perfectly enunciated by DRURB, says that the claims of most high-end cable companies are bunk, as well as the other side - that these cables do improve your sound. It seems as if the majority of professional recording studios use 'exotic' cables as well as a large population on talkbass and throughout the sound industry. I do as well, although I stay fairly low on the exotic scale. This is not a winnable argument - I've been around it for decades and both sides are as entrenched as ever although the exotic cable industry has grown by leaps and bounds over that time. Obviously you have great ears and are very sensitive to sound. Maybe some day you'll borrow some to find out what you hear.
Click to expand...


The argument is not winnable in the same sense that the evolution/intelligent design "argument" is not winnable. Formal logic teaches that, in order to have an argument, there must be premises that are agreed upon. The i.d. folks and real scientists do not agree on the premises. Neither do the exotic cable folks and real scientists. I won't even discuss the former case. In the latter case, the cable folks reject decades of extremely good science concerning of what humans are capable of dicriminating and to what they are sensitive coupled with the science that describes the transmission behavior of electrons in a wire. If you are a hearing scientist, you know that the claims of the cable folks can be and have been tested. When they are shown as false, the cable guys simply say that they KNOW they hear a difference and that the scientific procedure is at fault. Most will NEVER submit to objective testing. Please see my post concerning "golden ears."

It IS worth it to have good cables as I stated earlier-- mostly because they have high-quality, robust connectors, strain-reliefs, and insulation.
 
#50
Adrian Cho said:
I considered Bergantino cabs for about two seconds but figured they were too heavy and would be too coloured for my tastes. Of course I may well be wrong.
Click to expand...

While it is heavier than an LDS 1x8, an HT112 is still fairly compact and quite managable.

While it is slightly more colored than a VL-208, many people (myself included) find the HT112's slight coloration (I think of it as a hint of low mid bloom) quite pleasing, and feel that the integration of tweeter, crossover and driver are second to none. To be honest, though, it's sort of the ying to the LDS 1x8's yang (with the LDS 1x8 having more of an upper midrange presence), though both cabs are far more accurate than much of the competition.

The HT112 is a great cab and a viable alternative, especially to those who feel that the little 1x8's aren't as full on the low end as they might like.

Tom.
 
#51
tombowlus said:
While it is heavier than an LDS 1x8, an HT112 is still fairly compact and quite managable.

While it is slightly more colored than a VL-208, many people (myself included) find the HT112's slight coloration (I think of it as a hint of low mid bloom) quite pleasing, and feel that the integration of tweeter, crossover and driver are second to none. To be honest, though, it's sort of the ying to the LDS 1x8's yang (with the LDS 1x8 having more of an upper midrange presence), though both cabs are far more accurate than much of the competition.

The HT112 is a great cab and a viable alternative, especially to those who feel that the little 1x8's aren't as full on the low end as they might like.

Tom.
Click to expand...

+1. The HT112 is only 39lbs., dimensions: 15"H x 17-1/2"W x 13"D. By comparison, the Acme B-1 is 15.75"H x 15.75"W x 13.5"D
(Weight: 31 lbs. / 14.1 Kg). The HT is an easy load it...it doesn't float like the Epi UL110, but it's not heavy.

If you run a Focus/Clarus, I would really check out the HT. They seem perfectly suited to one another for upright. This cab saves my cookies on a weekly basis. Last night I did three hours in an art gallery with 30 foot ceilings and walls at all kinds of weird angles. It was an acoustics nightmare. Rooms like this are where the HT makes its money. I never lost pitch clarity or got too boomy, and by the second set the drummer was telling me he was digging the bass sound. It is a very natural and focused cab (the tweeter is incredible...it gives up wonderful natural high end/growl, without the typical "string noise" sound of other tweets). The low end is full (not unnaturally so), but it will cut like a ginsu knife if you need it to.

Just my .02.
 
#52
What my diaper challenged friend (Wilbyman) is saying is
true. I used my Bergie in the worst room you can imagine.
The band (guys with good ears) liked my sound and could
hear every note. (too bad) I just posted in another thread
that when we did a comparison with Epifani, Acme, Berg,
and Wizzy boxes, everyone has liked the Berg the most by
a good amount. BUT! As small and light as it is, the weight
is still more than the others. It just seems heavy for such
a very small box. Your milage may vary.
 
#53
re the cable issue, once people start ignoring logically designed (scientific) tests, and stick with the "believe" horsecrap, well... nothing you could do.

people do what they do and buy what they buy. so be it.

A really good speaker cable could be made from 12 guage extention cord, so long as its newer and not exidizing. of course this assume good connectors.
And it's cheap.
 
#54
Crockettnj said:
re the cable issue, once people start ignoring logically designed (scientific) tests, and stick with the "believe" horsecrap, well... nothing you could do.

people do what they do and buy what they buy. so be it.

A really good speaker cable could be made from 12 guage extention cord, so long as its newer and not exidizing. of course this assume good connectors.
And it's cheap.
Click to expand...


AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#55
I'd been using an Acme Low-B1 for a year straight with first an AI Clarus and now a Focus. I've always loved the size of the Acme, its ruggedness and its ability to cover the low-end. For a 1x10 it's always been way phat, in fact so much so that I pan my bass EQ almost all the way off. Also, it's loud enough for (my) small to medium size gigs.

I had the great opportunity to A-B-C 3 cabs at BString's place: Acme Low-B1, Bergantino HT112 and Euphonic Audio Wizzy.

True, the Bergantino *did* it for me and I promptly ordered/received it and it's been a blessing for my particular bass. The Acme, small as it is was just too dark. I can compare it to what a Realist did to my sound. The Bergantino sounds like my bass louder with my Mic. The Acme did as well, but, at higher volume, its 10 can rumble the roof. The Bergy's woofer doesn't waffle or rumble at all - super tight woofer.

My group is happier - they can hear all the notes. I'm happier - I can be heard. The Bergy took some getting used to however. It forced me to play better as everything I did could be heard. The Acme with its (almost exaggerated) low end was covering up some laziness on my part.

All-in-all, I'm done looking for a natural URB "sound".

OT: if I may share an experience that may be of interest to some of you. I was a bit sick and tired of the Focus (AI) for my Fender P or J bass. Just way too sterile, no character. I I could've looked at outboard preamps, but, I like easy setups and less gear. My lower lumbar insists I don't shlep my B15N (gonna sell her soon) so I needed a lightweight head. I played through an Ashdown at a rehearsal studio and really liked it for slab. You can get 'em new for $ 220 (cheap-cheap and good tone). I was going to buy a GK400RB until I played the Ashdown.

A guy on TB's slab forum mentioned the GK can also double as an URB amp whereas the Ashdown won't. I took his word and found a GK. Pleasant surprise that the GK head sounds damn good on URB either through my Acme or Bergy. Bottom line: I've got backup amps and feel "covered" for all gigs.

Side note: I was at "Stein's" on Vine in LA 'bout a year ago. In walked a living legend Al McKibbon. Al's approach to URB amplification (he uses a Woods btw): start w/all EQ's (Bass-Mid-Treble) OFF, not flat. Increase the volume. Add Mid or Bass ONLY if needed. With this approach, I could easily dial-in a decent natural sound with the GK. *That* was a surprise.

Thanks for listening folks.

p.s. I'm a new listener of Scott Lafaro. He's allowed me to expand my solo playing like noone else. R.I.P. Scotty
 
#56
Update: I sold the B-1. The sound was amazing and it had a wonderful old school tone. However it was not a good match with the Vektor and at higher output levels, the sound is just too full-on. It's fantastic for lower volume levels however. Unfortunately I'm still not happy with the LDS. If I could have easily returned it I would have but for now it will suffice. My cart arrived and with the compartment and the cart, it certainly makes for a very convenient setup. I have the feeling that I will live with it until the NM-208 comes out. It is tempting to try an LDS 2x8 but I have a feeling I would not like it.
 
#57
LarryR said:
I had the great opportunity to A-B-C 3 cabs at BString's place: Acme Low-B1, Bergantino HT112 and Euphonic Audio Wizzy.
Click to expand...

I must admit it was a real eye opener for me too. It was
Wilbyman who really turned me on to the Berg ht112. A
very unusual box. In the right application I love it more
than my dog. The B-1, Wizzy, and Berg, all had very
individual sounds. All good. Just a matter of what you're
looking for. But I must admit, the berg/focus combo is
quite impressive indeed. Thanks Larry.
 
#58
The LDS1x8 is VERY BRIGHT. I have been using it on gigs for a month and except for the under powered WW m100 I m using it is a fine little box. It is soooo much better then the GK, which is the only other super small rig I have to compare it to, that I am still in micro rig bliss. But I can at this point really see that a 2x8 might be the way to cut thru. Last night I played a big outdoor gig (bop quintet with horns) and a pianist friend of mine in the audience told me that the ensemble bass sections were swallowed but the solos came out beautifully. That might be because i dont like the sound of the Woods when it is screaming wide open. I am seriously considering selling the woods and getting the new focus.
Adrian, How does the LDS sound with the AMT mic and Vektor blended?
 
#59
The Bergantino 112's have been great for me. I play a wide range of venues with several groups, and the other musicians always compliment me on my sound. Most db gigs are fine with one HT112, but I add the extension EX112 for louder gigs. Everyone agrees that Jim's tweeters are really musical, but I believe that his high quality crossover has a lot to do with the sound.

As far as speaker cables go, I've tried everything over the years. I have never been as impressed as I am with custom cables from Butch Ammons at Bayou Cables. Great cable, great connectors, and high quality soldering. The best thing is that you can order any length you need, with any mix of connectors. It's hard to find short cables with Speakons. Butch made me 3 foot cables for $13.00 each. Google for Bayou Cables. He's a really good guy to do business with.

George
 
#60
The LDS does not sound good with the AMT alone. With the Vektor it is better. It's best with the Vektor alone where at least on my bass, the full sound of the pickup compensates for the brightness of the cab. The AMT is nice to add a little bit of presence but you can't use it too much with the LDS.

The B-1 sounded fantastic at lower volumes but at least with my setup - gut - at higher volumes the sound was too "solid" - not necesarily bassy or boomy but almost too full. However the guy I sold it to has a plywood with a Realist and we tried it out and it sounded great and needed just a bit of bass attentuation at higher volumes.
 

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