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Double Bass Learning about luthiers

I’ve been playing an Engelhardt swingmaster for ~20 years. Basically when another bassist mentioned a bass maker besides someone I had met or Kay, I wouldn’t have a point of reference.

Now suddenly, I need to purchase my second bass and I’m at a loss. I’m not a pro, but I’m not a student or beginner. Are there certain names that I should avoid?

I’m going to look at a Strol Schonbach on Friday and a Trbovich also. Thanks!!
 
At the sub $15K price level names are kindof irrelevant.

All kinds of name are applied to basses that come from the same factory as a kinda marketing feature

Its somewhat important to know what factory the bass came from when gauging general reliability

For example the Shonbach is a Stunal, which are tanks and can be boomy

But it much more important to shop with your ears and try as many as you can in all price ranges
Get something you like as is
Not something you think will be right with new strings or a change in setup
 
Thanks! Yes, definitely thinking sub 15k, maybe 6-12.

To elaborate conflicting things have heard: one friend told me Shens were sub-par student basses, but then I have subsequently heard that they make very high level basses, I heard similar conflicting things about Juzek
 
it really come to trying as many as can and find one that speaks to you

some people love bass ____ some people don't
It just not a one size fits all for any bass

The best way to make an informed choice is ask yourself what you want the out of it now and in the future
Good bowing sound in thumb position?
Big boomy pizz? ...
Then don't settle until
You find it

The next best is work with respected luthiers to ensure the overall health and any repairs are stable
Trust yourself enjoy the process
good luck
 
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I played a Kay for 20 years before getting my new sub $15k bass. I played a number of Shens, and was almost ready to write a check when another bass came into the shop and I took it home instead.

The one thing I can recommend is not to hurry. I got some good advice from Mark Sonksen in Chicago, which was that you have to spend some time in luthiers' shops so your technique can adapt to the characteristics of "mainstream" basses before you can make a confident evaluation. Otherwise you end up with a new bass that sounds exactly like your old one. It won't take you years, but it will take more than a few hours.
 
some people love bass ____ some people don't
This - very much. Form your own opinions based on experience. There are tons of threads here on just about every make of bass to help you out - and often demonstrate how opinions differ. Then, other folk differ s to the value, saying "___ basses are okay but overpriced."

One distinction possibly worth making - I use the word "luthier" somewhat differently than "maker." I'm not sure it is entirely correct to call Kay or Shen a "luthier."
I got some good advice from Mark Sonksen in Chicago, which was that you have to spend some time in luthiers' shops ...
Mark is a luthier (and a seller). I may be wrong, but I do not believe he "builds" basses.

Speaking in generalities, stepping up you are most likely going from your current ply to a hybrid or fully carved. So you are already passing by the cheapest Chinese imports and going to the higher range models of the major makers.

I am the farthest thing from an expert in older European basses, but the names you mention, including Strunal and Juzek, to me suggest European shop basses. Many people say this is the golden category in which you can find your "lifetime bass." But there can also be tremendous variety in terms of construction, quality, and condition. So be prepared to play and compare a lot of basses. The product of a major maker like Shen is likely to be much more consistent and predictable.

Also, if you buy from a reputable shop, you can more likely presume that it will be well set up. Buying a poorly set up bass from a private party, you might be buying a hope that it will be wonderful when properly set up.

I would strongly suggest you develop a relationship with the reputable shops nearest to you and let them diret your education. (Tho we are always willing to yak! ;)) If you need to take a weekend trip to someplace with a coupe of nice shops, that might be time and money well spent.
 
Unless you are commissioning an instrument, don’t worry about builders. Just have an idea about the sound you want to hear and play as many instruments as you can to find the one that gets closest to that sound with the least amount of effort AND is in your price range.
 
A bit about what kind of music you are going to be playing could help with recommendations.
At your price point you are unlikely to get a luthier built instrument. Many factories make or made a variety of levels of instruments, from student to what I would call journeyman pro level. You also run into brands that source from more than one factory. A good shop can be a big help as can a teacher or pro friend.
 
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I’ve been playing an Engelhardt swingmaster for ~20 years. Basically when another bassist mentioned a bass maker besides someone I had met or Kay, I wouldn’t have a point of reference.

Now suddenly, I need to purchase my second bass and I’m at a loss. I’m not a pro, but I’m not a student or beginner. Are there certain names that I should avoid?

I’m going to look at a Strol Schonbach on Friday and a Trbovich also. Thanks!!
Than
A bit about what kind of music you are going to be playing could help with recommendations.
At your price point you are unlikely to get a luthier built instrument. Many factories make or made a variety of levels of instruments, from student to what I would call journeyman pro level. You also run into brands that source from more than one factory. A good shop can be a big help as can a teacher or pro friend.
thanks for all the responses. I play mostly jazz but also love new music and playing in a community orchestra. Another question is: are prices largely arbitrary within certain ranges? Is there a contrabass “blue book”?
 
are prices largely arbitrary
This made me literally laugh out loud.

That’s a big 10-4, buddy. Every bass is worth exactly what someone pays for it at any given time and the seller always gets to make up the (initial) number.

You pay extra for tone, volume, age, aesthetics, and proximity.

Your buddy that told you Shens are a drag may be a bigot, just fyi. They’re the best price/value out there and definitely the droid you seek, imho.
 
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Shens are a little odd to me, the ones I’ve played sound pretty good when you’re playing by yourself but they tend to disappear when the rest of the ensemble comes in. At least from the player’s perspective. I sat in on an acquaintance’s gig recently, he was getting a really lovely sound out front, but as soon as I was playing it once again the sound was gone, to my ears. The folks I knew out front said they had much the same reaction to the sound in the house; present, woody, good sustain, etc. Just can’t hear that when you’re right on top of it…
 
Another question is: are prices largely arbitrary within certain ranges? Is there a contrabass “blue book”?
I don't know what you mean by "arbitrary within certain ranges." Generally plys are cheaper than hybrids which are cheaper than fully carved. Some makers' basses are pricier or cheaper than others. For example, you would be able to get a fully carved no-name Chinese bass for less than an Upton ply. But that doesn't mean the carved Chinese is a better bargain. The Upton ply might be overpriced, but the cheap carved bass might be utterly unplayable.

Just spitballing here, but I'd imagine a decent ply would run $2-3.5. You can get a decent hybrid for $3-6k. And you could get a decent carved for $6k or up. Sure, if you look hard and get lucky, you can find something under those ranges. I'm sure some plys/hybrids will go for higher than I suggested. Only you can say if a particular bass is worth the premium. For example, some folk think Uptons are overpriced. I'm not sure I agree, but they certainly are not bargain priced.

Some basses will be priced unrealistically high. Might have to do with provenance, a pigheaded seller/consignor, or any number of other factors. But in the range you are talking about - <$15k, you will be able to find a TON of really good basses. The difficult thing will be to figure out exactly what matters to you, and how your preferences translate into what you are willing to pay. Also - depending on you ability and intentions, I suspect you could get an AMAZING bass for well under $15k.

I have not done tons of comparison shopping recently, but when I did, I did not feel prices were crazily arbitrary. I might see a bass with a big price tag on it that I didn't personally care for, but I doubt I would say it was a total piece of crap that NO ONE should like. Moreover, asking prices are simply that. Whether in a shop or by a private seller, you are always free to make an offer.

And - if you can afford it - price really shouldn't mean anything. When you are playing out, NO ONE is going to ask, "How much did you pay for that?" (Well, at least not when assessing how you sounded. Other musicians might always be curious, but you can choose how you respond. I am supremely gifted at being able to make an expensive bass sound cheap! :D)) Say you can afford $15k, but you play a bunch of basses in that range and fall in love with one for $6k. You should buy that bass, play the heck out of it, and don't think twice. OTOH, if you think the $10k basses are just fine, but REALLY LOVE one for $15k - if you have the cash, spend it. Now, if spending an extra couple grand is going to keep you from putting food on the table...

You still haven't told us where you are, which would open up discussion of the shops available to you. No, there is no "blue book." The best you can do is look at what certain types of basses have sold for recently. If you see mid-1900s German carved basses are regularly going for $6-8k (just spitballing again), that gives you a good reference point to wonder why a particular 1950 German carved is asking $10k. Or $4k.

I play an Engle as well. The most immediately obvious thing you will notice on most basses you try is a different neck profile. Another thing you will want to consider is whether you are going to keep 2 basses and, if so, if you want your 2 basses set up similarly, or differently. When I bought my hybrid, I thought I would sell my Engle. But I found I enjoyed having 2 basses set up very differently - the hybrid for classical and the ply w/ guts for bluegrass/etc. Also nice to have a cheap "beater" bass when you might need to lay it down in a parking lot or something.

Good luck.
 
Another question is: are prices largely arbitrary within certain ranges? Is there a contrabass “blue book”?
That reminds of a line I heard recently; someone says something in a conversation and the other person says “That’s not a word, you made that up!” And the first person replied “Aren’t all words ‘made up’?”
 
Could be good if the size isn't a problem.
 
Could be good if the size isn't a problem.
44" string length is a problem for most I'm sure. At $10k, there are always Juzek and Wilfer style basses with 41-42" SLs
out there.
 
That "John Juzek" bass is perfect example of what this thread is originally about.

As far as I know Juzek was an importer from various European factories, not a bass maker. (see source below)

The bass in the ad has the distinctive bloom of the fully carved basses from the Hofner factory.

So is that bass a Juzek or a Hofner?
the answer is: who cares, how does it sound and feel.

(44" :nailbiting:)

"Many renowned bassists (mostly jazz players) play Juzeks, but the name has a somewhat convoluted history. John (or Jan, or Janek) Juzek was a Czechoslovakian violin maker around 1910-20, working out of a shop in Prague. However, his primary business was exporting instruments made by various makers and factories from the region to the USA. Jan's brother, Robert Jezek, moved to New York City, and eventually established the Czechoslovak Musical Instruments Company. By the 1930s, the company was importing and selling a wide range of instruments, and later became the Metropolitan Music Co, now in Vermont.

There is a wide and varying range of basses with a Juzek label, made anywhere from c. 1920 up to today. The sought-after Juzeks with that resonant bounce are the early ones, made in Czech, Bohemian, and German factories. "

 
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I put this Juzek into the discussion because the location is reasonably close to Chicago where someone suggested the OP would be looking. The Traditional Jazz Series at a nearby university (UNH Durham, NH) has for decades brought many of the greats to hold workshops and concerts. At one of these concerts (I think it was Benny Golson) I spoke with the bass player (whose name I can't recall) and asked about the bass. He said he'd borrowed it from a student who said to him "It's just a Juzek." The bass player then said he'd always found Juzeks to be very good. Then he added "I usually play left-handed"
 
i agree with a lot of what's already said here.

for me, at the lower price point I think you can get nice basses from eastman, shen, or upton.

you can also do very well getting an older instrument that's been restored and properly adjusted.

every bass - and it's state of setup and repair - will be individual. There certainly are things to stay away from, buy buying a bass you've played and enjoyed from a reputable dealer is really all there is to it.
 
I put this Juzek into the discussion because ...
That is totally cool. As often happens, we have taken this discussion beyond the OP's contributions! ;)

As I tried to suggest, the OP was not entirely clear about "luthiers" - makers vs maintenance, and "brands." Stuart correctly observes Juzek was an importer. I'm not sure how meaningful it is to distinguish "Juzek" from "mid-century European."

Moreover, I'm not sure to what extent Shen/Christopher/whomever have their own "factories", or whether they contact out for parts/completed instruments. What is likely most important is whomever does the final/most recent inspection/setup.