Learning how to mix recordings

[cdlynch]

High-pass EVERYTHING.

High pass is very useful, but my general advice is to avoid absolutes.

 

[paparoof]

High pass is very useful, but my general advice is to avoid absolutes.

touché.

 

[sratas]

High-pass EVERYTHING. Even kick drums and bass guitars (somewhere down around 30-40hz) but especially stuff like guitars and vocals that you can high-pass at much higher frequencies. Cleans up your bottom end a LOT and that's where things seem to get the messiest (to me anyway).

Best advice of the whole thread.

I usually hi pass the kick at 30 or above, the bass at 50-70 hz depending upon goals but try to keep first harmonic intact, lt's say from 80 hz it has to be preserved, everything else is being hipassed starting from 100 hz but usually higher, especially strumming acoustic guitars or male voices...
I sometimes apply a hpf setted at 30 hz on the output channel strip, because even if every track has been eq'd, some subsonic content can build up at the end of the signal chain.

I would like to post a ton of other comments ad advices, too many in fact, better to say this.

- read articles and books
- try to mix using free software, good but cheap headphones and staying calm with plugin use
- if you find you enjoy the process and learning, buy reference headphones and monitors, grab a pro level DAW, like Logic, Cubase etc and proceed
- don't be frustrated if your first works do not work...it's normal and there are so much things to be known
- there is no need for 2000 dollars mics for a good result, grab a workhorse like a shure sm 57 or alike and learn to use it for everything. There are better units and specialized ones, but I made several great albums using a cheap mic.


My ultimate advice:
Try to achieve a good signal to noise ratio when tracking, dynamics are a function of silence between sounds. It's not possible to have impact and dynamics without silence. Background noise, mic leakage, hum, are all acting like a pad behind the actual recording, mudding it up and making it sound cloudy and lifeless. Learn to do it, start fresh and clean. Apply noise gates and delete useless fragments of tracks trying to delete noises, it's worth it.

 

[crust_cheese]

I rock a Invalid Link Removed I picked up used for $400. I love this thing because each of the 8 inputs goes through the one USB connection to separate/individual tracks in the software - one take with the whole band and I have 8 tracks to work with! It also connects to my powered speakers to form the PA / monitors! Such a simple setup for all the functionality I was looking for.

Unfortunately I don't have that kind of money, the Akia EIE Pro for ~210 CHF would be more up my alley. It should be able of tracking four tracks at once too, no?

Thanks for all the advice up until now, guys. Fortunately I have used Reaper already (a very tiny bit, at least) and I was going to go with that anyway. Considering I already have a non-crappy sound card I might also go with a mixer to line-in into the card instead of a USB interface, though I'd much prefer to work with my laptop, so I might go with the interface anyway.

 

[paparoof]

Interface quality is WAY up and the prices are WAY down from where they were even a short time ago. Your line-in-to-sound-card plan will work for now, but it won't satisfy you for long.

Check it:
Invalid Link Removed

 

[crust_cheese]

Interface quality is WAY up and the prices are WAY down from where they were even a short time ago. Your line-in-to-sound-card plan will work for now, but it won't satisfy you for long.

Check it:
Invalid Link Removed

I was thinking that the EIE Pro would allow me the record drums sometime down the line as it's got 4 inputs. That would be difficult with only two, no?

 

[Timi]

Well,

It's what happens to the tracks in the DAW that makes a click a requirement, not how tight the band is live.

Once you start changing anything in a wav file (and sometimes just dragging the files into the DAW to get started), or adding overdub tracks, there are minute changes to the timing of little things that need to be addressed.

Nope, I think there's something going wrong in your DAW. Accidentally in shuffle mode? Delay compensation buggy? Some sort of automated offset?

Even using the same sample for different verses in a song can be problematic, because the live players had a particular groove going that might be unique to that one verse. So, each little part can have many little timing errors introduced through either computer processing speed, or human assumption and error.

Sure you don't have as much freedom with copying and pasting stuff around, you have to treat each part of the song as unique and get a good take, is that so hard? Unsure what computer speed has to do with this.

Didn't mean that a band can't sound tight without a click. It's just that once the moment of recording has passed, you really need a click so you don't find yourself adrift in a swamp of inaccuracy.

I've made many records without a click with no accuracy problems. Some songs work at one tempo with a click, others require a tempo map for speed ups and slow downs, and sometimes you can just get a more natural feel without the click at all. Whatever serves the song.

 

[DavC]

the op said he'll use headphones ... don't worry about those egg cartons.

Just like everything else. .. practice, listen, learn, research. ....

 

[BAG]

Download this thread from the Reaper forum and read the whole of "Why your recordings sound like ass". Has some of the best advice for home recording I've ever come across.

If you haven't already invested in a DAW then do yourself a favour and get Reaper. Dirt cheap and every bit as good as the expensive "industry standard" DAW's.

Also, download a decent drums package. Invalid Link Removed. If you have enough mics to record your drum kit properly you can record and then use the midi drums package to copy what your drummer did..... at least as far as snare, kick, hats and toms....... and in almost all cases the result will be much better than what you could do recording real drums. Even fully equipped pro studios can have trouble getting good drum sounds.

As others have said, getting a good heavy sound you are better to have MUCH LESS distortion than you would think. Angus Young in AC/DC actually uses very little overdrive. Anyway, all of this and more is covered in the first link I posted.

 

[SpankyPants]

The worst words in mixing are "always" and "never." The way you should end most thoughts is "for the music." Like, "the kick drum sounds best hi passed at 30Hz at 48 dB/octave for this music/song/desired sound."

Train your ears. Mix at lower volumes (and then reference at higher volumes too). Take breaks. Reference on any other system you have available (especially cars). Make sure it sounds good in mono.

But most of all, check phase coherency. No amount of EQ, compression, or anything else can fix something that's out-of-phase.

 

[40Hz]

The two best resources that I've used are this website:

The Recording Revolution

and this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Mixing-Secrets-Small-Studio-Senior/dp/0240815807

I highly recommend both for getting into the world of budget recording.

This.

The Recording Revolution videos are invaluable. Subscribe to their mailing list and get a link each day to the newest free video.

 

[MDBass]

Hi guys, I've been wondering about something recently -

Just how realistic is it to learn, on your own, how to mix and master your own tracks? I'm under no illusions here that I could do it quite as well as a trained engineer, but I love the DIY aesthetic and it would be nice to record some music which probably no one would pay for, as in a small black metal project.

EDIT: Should specify here that I also mean "on a shoestring budget", i.e. with USB interfaces and software plugins.

An interface and plugins are really all you need, in addition to a good ear and tireless work ethic, to become a great mix engineer; from personal experience, I'd give yourself at least 6 months to a year of pre-production so you can learn the tools of the trade and produce something you're very happy with.

Check Hardcore Mixing for a lot of excellent advice on how to use EQ and compression properly for heavy music: Invalid Link Removed

Don't worry about mastering too much, as some pros like Acle at 4D Sounds only charge ~$50 per track and do excellent work: Home

The mix, and even more importantly the recording/engineering itself, are what you really want to focus and spend your time on.

Some quick tricks/tips for guitars...

Always track with a clean DI in case re-amping is necessary.

Save the loudness war for the mix and mastering stages; try to keep your peaks when tracking to -6dB or under.

Use less gain than you think you need when tracking in general, but especially doubled parts; every time you double the part you also double the gain, which can very quickly lead to excess noise and a loss of punch and clarity.

Use both high pass and low pass filters as well as a mid boost to get leads to sit on top of the mix while reducing noise.

Excessive EQ'ing on heavy distorted guitars very quickly causes them to sound weak; if you find yourself boosting or cutting more than a few dB when mixing, re-amp the take and try again.

I was in your shoes a few years ago myself and now produce professional mixes, it's really just a matter of putting the time in to know the tools (EQ, compression, reverb, panning) and learning from people who are better than you whenever possible.

Feel free to reach out, I'm always happy to talk shop, this is the most recent thing I've worked on:

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

have an idea of what you want to sound like.
pick your fav records, and A/B your mix to those.
Pick a song that you really like the mix sound of it, and compare it to your mix. Try to achieve the same sonic character of your fav record.
That helps, because when you try to make your mix sound like She's So Heavy, and you finally nail it, then you listen back and say, "yyyeeeaaahhh!!!!"

 

[Shanebo]

Nope, I think there's something going wrong in your DAW. Accidentally in shuffle mode? Delay compensation buggy? Some sort of automated offset?


Sure you don't have as much freedom with copying and pasting stuff around, you have to treat each part of the song as unique and get a good take, is that so hard? Unsure what computer speed has to do with this.


I've made many records without a click with no accuracy problems. Some songs work at one tempo with a click, others require a tempo map for speed ups and slow downs, and sometimes you can just get a more natural feel without the click at all. Whatever serves the song.

I'm sure that in time I'll learn some of what you've already learned about this subject.

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

All the best,

Shane

 

[Andy_Madison]

But most of all, check phase coherency. No amount of EQ, compression, or anything else can fix something that's out-of-phase.

If you do happen to record stuff that's phase wonky, sometimes this can be fixed by applying pre or post delay to the offending tracks. Moving these a few milliseconds ahead or behind time-wise may help flesh them out.

 

[paparoof]

...or in Reaper you can just use the "Nudge " function to move the .wav files into phase-alignment.

;-)

 

[silky smoove]

If you do happen to record stuff that's phase wonky, sometimes this can be fixed by applying pre or post delay to the offending tracks. Moving these a few milliseconds ahead or behind time-wise may help flesh them out.

I'm glad you used the word "sometimes" in your description. You can do this, and sometimes it works very well. The problem is that phase is not just time-dependent, but also frequency-dependent. The result can be, for example, that a 3ms delay works great for part of the tune, but is then just as out of phase at a different part where the frequency response changes drastically. You can use any number of phase correction plugins that work with varying degrees of success to fix this. You can also break the song into sections of a more "consolidated" frequency response and time-align them separately as opposed to doing it all in one big hunk.

It's an odd process. I find that I like the sound of time-aligned bass parts (i.e. DI + mic), but I don't like time-aligned drum parts. I've tried it a number of ways, but the best results I've had were when I time-aligned the close mics to the overheads. It certainly removes a bit of the phase "wash" sound, but it made everything sound too heavy on the attack and sort of muted on the tails. It was rather odd. That's one of those situations where what's technically incorrect sounds better to me than what's technically correct.

 

[paparoof]

That's interesting. I'll pay attention to that next time I'm working on something with multiple sources.

 

[crust_cheese]

So I rethought the deal a bit and decided that getting anything sufficient for a session of just one or two people would make little sense, as I'd later have to get something new (and spend more money) on something that can actually record my four-piece band.
As such, I've checked for the cheapest USB interface which offers 8 XLR inputs, and it's a Tascam US-16x08. It's got ample connectivity to experiment with all the microphones in the school rehearsal room (a bunch of SM57s, I was surprised), which would cover the vocalist; I'd probably try micing the kit and guitar amp too (or I guess we might try plugging the guitar directly into the interface and have him hear himself through the monitors in the room).
The US-16x08 is also just marginally more expensive than the EIE Pro.

Does this seem like a sound choice?

2. When you say drums and mics you're referring to tracking. I was talking about mixing, which is what you mentioned in your initial post. You can mix in a bad room, but I'm of the opinion that you can never really mix well in a bad room. There are plenty of DIY resources for building your own treatments, and ways to install them non-destructively.

Didn't realize I somehow skipped over this part; you're right of course, I want to track as well. I didn't really know any terminology at first and didn't express myself that clearly, I guess.

 

[Andy_Madison]

I haven't used the Tascam, though they've long been known for offering good starter-level equipment at decent prices.
I do like those bouncy analog level meters on the Teac EIE Pro, but the reviews scared me off.
Focusrite seems to garner good reviews. The Scarlett 1818 might suit your needs nicely. Here's one for two-finny: Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB 2.0 Computer Recording Audio Interface--