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Learning notes on fretboard: B#, Cb, E# and Fb?!
- Thread starter OldSchoolFlats
- Start date
Could you explain exactly what it is that you can't do now and that you want to be able to do?
If you're literally just looking for a diagram like the pdf you attached, but with these notes written down--it sounds like you know enough to make one yourself. All the frets currently labeled F should also be labeled with E#, etc.
Or maybe you're working on sight-reading and having trouble locating these notes on the neck quickly when you come across them? In which case you probably just need a good source of reading exercises that you can spend a few minutes on each day.
Or maybe it's something else?
If you're literally just looking for a diagram like the pdf you attached, but with these notes written down--it sounds like you know enough to make one yourself. All the frets currently labeled F should also be labeled with E#, etc.
Or maybe you're working on sight-reading and having trouble locating these notes on the neck quickly when you come across them? In which case you probably just need a good source of reading exercises that you can spend a few minutes on each day.
Or maybe it's something else?
Uh, no. All twelve notes in the western chromatic octave have more than one name. What we call "c" is also "b#" as the leading tone of the c# major scale, for example.
I could go and destroy all the bandwidth of this thread with a history of western musical notation, including how the treble and bass clefs came about, and why we have the black keys which developed over the centuries starting with Bb, but please bear with me.
When you call a note by more than one name, the descriptive word for that is "enharmonic." The reason you sometimes call a note each name depends on the key of the piece of music and the relationship of the note to the scale that goes with that key.
Again, for example, if a song is in c# major, then the notes of the c# major scale are c#, d#, e#, f#, g#, a#, b#. This keeps the notation for the rest of the chords of the scale consistent: the tonic c# chord is c#, e#, g#; the subdominant IV chord is f#, a#, c#, and the dominant V chord is g# b# d#. You must call the e# in the scale e# and not f, and b# in the scale b# and not c, because the notes f and c are not in the c# major scale. The notes, respectively, sound the same on an equally tempered instrument where you cannot adjust the tuning, are played on the same frets, but the notation is different depending on the key.
And then there are double sharps and double flats...for another day's lesson.
I suggest the OP take a college level music theory class to sort out the rest of why Western common era (@ 1600-1900) diatonic music notation is what it is.
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Yes, from a notation perspective I kind-of understand.
As a poor-slob trying to learn the fretboard though, I am "pulling my hair out" though. Still I think the numerous posts above will help.
Thank-you to all!
There is no such thing as E#, Fb or B#, Cb. You simply say E or B. E and B have no sharp, just a flat. Eb, Bb.
Anyone writing music with B#'s and E#'s needs to adjust how they write. I've been reading music for 40 years and I don't think I EVER seen a B# in a piece of bass music, unless it was written by someone who really doesn't know quite what they are doing. Just write the parts with more common notes instead of trying to be too technical.
In your case, I would write what the note is more commonly called above the screwy note, and that will help you tremendously.
In your case, I would write what the note is more commonly called above the screwy note, and that will help you tremendously.
- Apr 1, 2000
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- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
OCP does this a few times in their engraving of songs. Drives me up the wall a few times as it causes a slight pause as I come across a B#. By the time I've converted it to C in my mind, I'm behind the beat slightly.
One song, they even had a G# and a Ab.
Trials and tribulations of a mediocre bass player, I guess.
One song, they even had a G# and a Ab.
Trials and tribulations of a mediocre bass player, I guess.
Really all of the above. My conclusion though, seems to be: practice, practice, practice.
I have been away from bass for many years. I am trying to learn enough to read transcribed bass-parts.
The important thing to remember is that it doesn't matter. People who use sharps in their notation are loco bananas.
You must’ve never read anything in C# before. In diatonic music in the key of C# the note has to be a B# otherwise you’d have 2 types of C’s and no types of B’s. The other thing is that because of the the key signature and the sharps indicated at the beginning of the staff it would actually be more difficult and distracting to have to notate it as a C natural. In the key of C# you know everything is sharp, so when you see a B, you raise it a half step just like everything else. No biggie. It’s not that confusing when you see it in context. Same goes for E# or the double sharps and double flats. They are all there and only exist so the piece can follow the rules and that diatonic scales can have one type of each note. It makes way more sense in practice then it does discussing it, I promise.
For many situations I fully agree with you. I also do not recall many places where I had to read double sharps or flats in bass music, although if you look at the classical literature as a whole, e.g. at piano works by many composers (e.g. Chopin, Liszt, Debussy,...) you'll find them frequently. But we are talking about bass.
The fact that many bands simply downtune and then play in "C" while their instruments sound Cb also helps to give the impression that everything should lie in a notation friendly range. But let's say you compose a walking bass line over a jazz tune that does ii-V-I round the entire circle of fifth. Some parts will end up in somewhat uncommon territory. The common practice is to notate up to 6 sharps and then instead of doing 7 sharps going to 5 flats to enhance readability (and vice versa). But there will be situations where I will find it easier to read if we go from Gb major to Cb major and back rather than notating it as Gb B and back. (That is after I got my groans for having to read 6 flats out of the way). It depends on how your tonal center moves in the piece and whether the change is for only a short duration or present for a longer while.
It also depends on your intention: Do you want to compose something that others may need to play from your notation (e.g. for a jazz trio), or do you want to create an aide-memoire for your very own baseline for your band's latest awesome original, and fret/string is all you really care about as long as it rocks? Your approach may well differ in those cases.
Sometimes, Cb or E# is the correct spelling and B or F is incorrect. Spelling music properly is as important understanding the music as spelling text properly is for understanding language.
(Bach WTC Book I, Prelude in C# Major). Writing a C natural instead of B# here would be completely incorrect and musically misleading. Basically, the spelling should be such that it does not need to be modified when the piece is transposed to another key: here to transpose in C Major, the only thing one needs to do is to remove all the sharps in the key signature and convert the accidentals appropriately.
It always makes me cringe when I see (quite typically from a guitar player; some guitar players seem to be scared by flats...) an F7 chord spelled F - A - C - D# !!
The only case where I find enharmonic spelling OK is for diminished chords, where the "legit" spelling of the diminished 7th would cause a proliferation of double flats; replacing the diminished 7th by the enharmonically equivalent major 6th is more convenient! Diminished chords are intrinsically harmonically ambiguous anyway.
As to answer the OP question: write yourself a sticky note on your music stand, with
Cb = B
B# = C
Fb = E
E# = F
Done!
Edit: I cannot figure out how to post a picture... All methods fail!
(Bach WTC Book I, Prelude in C# Major). Writing a C natural instead of B# here would be completely incorrect and musically misleading. Basically, the spelling should be such that it does not need to be modified when the piece is transposed to another key: here to transpose in C Major, the only thing one needs to do is to remove all the sharps in the key signature and convert the accidentals appropriately.
It always makes me cringe when I see (quite typically from a guitar player; some guitar players seem to be scared by flats...) an F7 chord spelled F - A - C - D# !!
The only case where I find enharmonic spelling OK is for diminished chords, where the "legit" spelling of the diminished 7th would cause a proliferation of double flats; replacing the diminished 7th by the enharmonically equivalent major 6th is more convenient! Diminished chords are intrinsically harmonically ambiguous anyway.
As to answer the OP question: write yourself a sticky note on your music stand, with
Cb = B
B# = C
Fb = E
E# = F
Done!
Edit: I cannot figure out how to post a picture... All methods fail!
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Sorry, I was referring to an old school Rocker like me who would never say E# or Fb. If anyone else wants to refer to it that way, go for it. It would just make the notes on the Bass neck more confusing to me if I referred to them that way.
Sorry, I was referring to an old school Rocker like me who would never say E# or Fb. If anyone else wants to refer to it that way, go for it. It would just make the notes on the Bass neck more confusing to me if I referred to them that way.
Unless you have unlimited time to practice and learn, I'd forget about it. For all the times in your career that you'll be asked about these notes, you've already spent too much time on it.
I'm the last one to discourage learning, but concentrate on what you'll be called on to know and play first. If, like most of us, you have limited time, prioritize and spend it wisely.
I'm actually working on a diagram for everything on the first 12 frets. For now, I just need to "wood-shed" on the fretboard, by being more aware of the name of notes I'm playing.
Drooling and using patterns only goes so far. My bigger problem (a separate thread) is actually "getting" syncopation.
Been doing 1+2+ my whole life. Gotta start 1e+a, 2e+a in order to really do my favorite "gooves"...
