Learning notes on fretboard: B#, Cb, E# and Fb?!

[OldSchoolFlats]

I'm struggling to learn - REALLY LEARN - the notes on the fretboard, but B#, Cb, E# and Fb are driving me NUTS.

Yes, I know the following are the same pitch:

• B# and C
• B and Cb
• E# and F
• E and Fb

I know that pianos and fretted instruments are "equally tempered", and can never be perfectly in-tune in all keys.

I know that the reason for notes like E# and Cb has something to do with how music is notated in western music.

Still, this has always been a huge barrier for me in really KNOWING the notes on the fretboard.

Question: Does anyone have a diagram like this, that additionally accounts for the notes I mentioned above? [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

As an alternative, any suggestions to help with my getting smacked too many times with the "stupid stick"?

 

[Malcolm35]

Let's start with the major scale. Call it up, notice how notes like B# are not used. Why not? The old guys figured this out a long time ago. Has to do with the black notes on the piano that have two names for the same sound, and how we are to name them. Long story. The guys will help.

Happy trails.

 

[Dave TB Killer]

What about double sharps and double flats? LOL!

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Let's start with the major scale. Call it up, notice how notes like B# are not used. Why not? The old guys figured this out a long time ago. Has to do with the black notes on the piano that have two names for the same sound, and how we are to name them. Long story. The guys will help.

Happy trails.

Basically, I just want to visualize how to get to any note, from any other, to move about the fretboard better when reading sheet music, or chord-charts. I'm rusty to be sure (was away from bass for years), but never really got good KNOWING where ALL the notes on the fretboard were, by name. I could can get around with scale patterns, but generally end-up with ascending box-patterns.

I'm drawing my own fretboard similar to the link above with the additional FUBAR notes, but any hints for how others visualize all the notes on the fretboard would be much appreciated.

Scott's bass lessons suggests going though the root notes in the keys using the circle of fifths...

 

[Killing Floor]

It's important to learn. It's equally important to acknowledge that the way we notate music is really not intuitive and that is why so many people don't learn. But learn anyway if you can.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

It's important to learn. It's equally important to acknowledge that the way we notate music is really not intuitive and that is why so many people don't learn. But learn anyway if you can.

Yep: I fear this is the "bottom-line".

 

[phillipkregg]

This should help tremendously

 

[Killing Floor]

Yep: I fear this is the "bottom-line".

I know if you work it will come to you. It's not impossible and I'm sure you've learned a lot more difficult things. Don't get discouraged, even if you just do a little at a time it will stick.

 

[Jazz4Me]

You're really addressing two issues. Learning where the notes are on the fretboard and understanding music theory. As I'm fond of telling others, understanding music theory is as much about putting pen to paper as it is finger to fretboard. It's often best to learn the theory side away from the fretboard to better understand it on the fretboard.

 

[Leigh Semmens]

The only reason you have B#/Cb E#/Fb is when you are playing in certain keys like G# where the scale would be G#,A#, B#, C#,D#,E#,F##,G# (of course, rational people would play in Ab, but then there could be an issue with transposing mid tune. It really goes back to the bad old days of classical music where music written in, say, G would then migrate to G# and back down to G it keeps the notation on the staff (music) simpler in that you are writing all sharps. That is my understanding, anyway. A music historian might choose to differ.

 

[Jazz4Me]

The only reason you have B#/Cb E#/Fb is when you are playing in certain keys like G# where the scale would be G#,A#, B#, C#,D#,E#,F##,G# (of course, rational people would play in Ab, but then there could be an issue with transposing mid tune. It really goes back to the bad old days of classical music where music written in, say, G would then migrate to G# and back down to G it keeps the notation on the staff (music) simpler in that you are writing all sharps. That is my understanding, anyway. A music historian might choose to differ.

First, G# is not a key. Second, the reason for the enharmonic notes (fancy way of saying notes that have the same pitch) is to make music notation easier to understand. If I wanted to notate a chromatic run in the key of A major (A B C# D E F# G#) from the A to D and back down, I would sharp the 2nd (B) when ascending the run and flat the 3rd (C#) when descending to make it easier to read on the notated page. This is a standard practice when writing music notation.

 

[Les Fret]

Just forget about notes like B# for now.
First learn all notes without accidentals, C major, all across the neck. Then for the next week learn G major, 1#. Then move to D#. Then after all the sharps go to the flats. F major, 1b, and so on. Then after a few months when you know to find all these without too much thinking then you can worry about B# and so.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Another way to work on this is practicing arpeggios (which in my experience should be practiced more than the underlying scale, assuming you know the scale). If you do minor arpeggios across the instrument (1 b3 5 b7) you will end up on chords such as Gbm7 which would be Gb Bbb Db Fb. That will make those enharmonic equivalent notes very obvious. Another thing I really like to do is whole tone scales, which forces you to make the same enharmonic choices.

 

[jchrisk1]

The notes have to follow an order, always.
Example, C major scale, C, D, E, F, G, A, B. The order never changes, it will always be A through G. Chords are built by stacking thirds. C, E, G, - D, F, A, and so on. So, let's look at an Ab minor triad. Ab, Cb, Eb. You can't call Cb a B because B would be a second and we stack thirds, so it has to be some kind of C, which will be Cb, because it's the third note in order. 1,3,5 are the chord tones.
As mentioned above, put it down on paper. Write out your major and minor scales, and their associated chords, it will start making sense.

 

[HolmeBass]

The only reason you have B#/Cb E#/Fb is when you are playing in certain keys like G# where the scale would be G#,A#, B#, C#,D#,E#,F##,G# (of course, rational people would play in Ab, but then there could be an issue with transposing mid tune. It really goes back to the bad old days of classical music where music written in, say, G would then migrate to G# and back down to G it keeps the notation on the staff (music) simpler in that you are writing all sharps. That is my understanding, anyway. A music historian might choose to differ.

This is it. The “key” info is for a given key/major scale, each letter gets used once and only once. That ends up forcing awkward B# and double sharps or double flats.

 

[bon viesta]

the lack of songs in b really has me not even knowing where to start when a song is in b. the pattern with major scales that i’ve learned though is sort of a mental “shape” of the frets in the scale. the b has b and Bb, and there’s two half steps above it, and then there’s a whole step either direction and also octaves.

 

[SteveCS]

the b has b and Bb

Per @HolmeBass above, try revising the scale to use each letter name only once. B Major has 5 sharps in the signature - renaming Bb to A# brings us to: B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A#, B

See how, when we go to the relative (G#) minor we have to use F double-sharp instead of G for the leading tone:

 

[James Collins]

First, G# is not a key. Second, the reason for the enharmonic notes (fancy way of saying notes that have the same pitch) is to make music notation easier to understand. If I wanted to notate a chromatic run in the key of A major (A B C# D E F# G#) from the A to D and back down, I would sharp the 2nd (B) when ascending the run and flat the 3rd (C#) when descending to make it easier to read on the notated page. This is a standard practice when writing music notation.

Plus double sharp the F# ascending, I believe.

 

[SteveCS]

I'm struggling to learn - REALLY LEARN - the notes on the fretboard, but B#, Cb, E# and Fb are driving me NUTS.

Yes, I know the following are the same pitch:

• B# and C
• B and Cb
• E# and F
• E and Fb

I know that pianos and fretted instruments are "equally tempered", and can never be perfectly in-tune in all keys.

I know that the reason for notes like E# and Cb has something to do with how music is notated in western music.

Still, this has always been a huge barrier for me in really KNOWING the notes on the fretboard.

Question: Does anyone have a diagram like this, that additionally accounts for the notes I mentioned above? [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

As an alternative, any suggestions to help with my getting smacked too many times with the "stupid stick"?

Moving on from my post (#17) above, now consider E Major - 4 sharps:

Now consider the relative minor of E major, which is C# minor. See how the leading tone is now B#:

 

[smtp4me]

I'm struggling to learn - REALLY LEARN - the notes on the fretboard, but B#, Cb, E# and Fb are driving me NUTS.

Yes, I know the following are the same pitch:

• B# and C
• B and Cb
• E# and F
• E and Fb

I know that pianos and fretted instruments are "equally tempered", and can never be perfectly in-tune in all keys.

I know that the reason for notes like E# and Cb has something to do with how music is notated in western music.

Still, this has always been a huge barrier for me in really KNOWING the notes on the fretboard.

Question: Does anyone have a diagram like this, that additionally accounts for the notes I mentioned above? [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

As an alternative, any suggestions to help with my getting smacked too many times with the "stupid stick"?

Think of it this way: every fret on the fingerboard is one half step away from the adjacent frets, regardless of how it is written on a musical staff. If you know where C natural is, Cb is one fret down. Yes, it's also B natural. If you know where B natural is, B# is one fret up. Yes, it's also C natural.

If you think in terms of a keyboard/piano, the black key that represents C# is also Db. They both represent the same note and frequency, the only difference depends on the key signature - you still hit the same key regardless if the music notation is C# or Db.