Learning syncopated or complex grooves

[Shenron]

My question is, how do you go about learning syncopated or complex rhythms or patterns?

First, I write them down (if I don't have a transcription yet), whatever sketchy form.

Second, I sing the rhythm (probably slowly if it's complex).

That's it! Once it's into my ears then it's easily into my hands as well. It does help that I had rhythm solfeggio training at school 30+ years ago, and that occasionally I play with rhythm training apps (among other productive apps) rather than watching social media videos.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

First, I write them down (if I don't have a transcription yet), whatever sketchy form.

Second, I sing the rhythm (probably slowly if it's complex).

Here it is an original soundclip of that Bridge - just the bass with the click.

(I doubt that the OP's rhythmic "notation" is correct.)

 

[CalEliteCoach]

It might help to
1) put in some bar lines (using the 1/8 note as you have, and in line with your count pattern, it amounts to 4 bars, not 2):
View attachment 7381690

and
2) consolidate the notes/rests according to standard notation convention - representing the beats this way makes them much easier to read (and learn):
View attachment 7381691

I totally get your point. I could have written it with bar lines. Since I don't read or notate music well, I chose to represent every beat with either a note or a rest. You are totally right, my brain just hasn't learned the proper notation for rests.

 

[CalEliteCoach]

Here it is an original soundclip of that Bridge - just the bass with the click.

(I doubt that the OP's rhythmic "notation" is correct.)

View attachment 7381908

Thank you for the clip. I used Moises to learn and notate the bridge. That's how I came up with my uneducated version.

 

[bass12]

It might help to
1) put in some bar lines (using the 1/8 note as you have, and in line with your count pattern, it amounts to 4 bars, not 2):
View attachment 7381690

and
2) consolidate the notes/rests according to standard notation convention - representing the beats this way makes them much easier to read (and learn):
View attachment 7381691

This. OP: you’ve counted the bridge double time.

 

[porkynuggets]

I'll just add to the wall of sound saying try tapping or singing the rhythm, the more ways you access that rhythm the more solid it will be for you.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

OP: you’ve counted the bridge double time.

Yes.

 

[GrooveCaptain]

That's a great Incubus song. That whole album was phenomenal. As a couple others have said, I think just repeated listens and finding other cues in the music will help. I'm a self taught bassist and only know an embarrassingly small amount of theory, but I can play odd rythyms and time signatures just from repetition.

 

[Wasnex]

My question is, how do you go about learning syncopated or complex rhythms or patterns? I get lost when I count or when I'm not following my notation. I play in a cover band and am a primarily self-taught bassist. I do not read music well, but I understand the basics of rhythm. I am learning "The Warmth" by Incubus. It is a pretty simple song with three major parts. The verse and chorus were easy to pick up, but the bridge is giving me trouble. The bridge has a bass and drum pattern in 4/4, I think. These are two bars of the bridge as I counted. It repeats for 12 total bars and goes back into the chorus:

𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾

𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾

To me, the beats line up as underlined:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

If I am using written notation, I find it useful to have bar marks and beat marks. What you have written looks like gibberish to me. Here is my revision.

I don't go overboard with the 1-e-and-a stuff.

To work up the rhythm, I might sing/say it it rather than play it. I voice the beats and the syncopations and put a little emphasis on the notes...shown in bold below.

You might tap out the played notes as you voice:
|1, 2, 3,4&|1,2,3&,4|1&,2,3,4&|1,2,3,4

Another part of my process is to imagine the subdivisions (hear them in my mind's ear). In conjunction with hearing the subdivision, I will slow the beat down as necessary, and then work it up; possibly a section at a time.

It get's easier with practice.

I majored in music. We read from the Ottman Music for Sight Reading. We conducted the beat and sang the rhythm and melody using solfege. The part of this that may be useful for you is learning to conduct basic beat patterns. It takes awhile to automate the beat pattern. It's been a long time and I am not very good at it anymore .

4 looks like this:

The pattern is from your perspective (behind your hand). Learning and using this pattern can help you keep your place in regards to where you are in each measure.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I used Moises to learn and notate the bridge.

Good.
This morning, TKenrick has posted a nice bass transcription - Vulfpeck - Christmas in L.S. - with some syncopated bass notes.

Submission Thread 'Vulfpeck - Christmas in L.A. transcription (notation only)'

Dec 5, 2025

Did this for a student and thought I'd share as it's one of the better Christmas tunes...

I suspect that Joe Dart is tuned down to Eb on the original recording, hence the low notes in the bridge. From listening to the live recordings of this tune it sounds like he's in standard, as he plays some parts up an octave from where they are on this chart.

• TKenrick
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Tablature and Notation [BG]

• 

Here is the soundclip of the main bass riff/groove/template - 2-measure groove, just slower.

And here is the standard notation of 6 measures.

Try to count and practice it. It's not difficult but helpful.

 

[tonym]

This is one of the best threads going. Really helpful to me, and has given me a lot to work on improving. Looking forward to more homework!

 

[Wasnex]

Good.
This morning, TKenrick has posted a nice bass transcription - Vulfpeck - Christmas in L.S. - with some syncopated bass notes.

Submission Thread 'Vulfpeck - Christmas in L.A. transcription (notation only)'

Dec 5, 2025

Did this for a student and thought I'd share as it's one of the better Christmas tunes...

I suspect that Joe Dart is tuned down to Eb on the original recording, hence the low notes in the bridge. From listening to the live recordings of this tune it sounds like he's in standard, as he plays some parts up an octave from where they are on this chart.

• TKenrick
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Tablature and Notation [BG]

• 

Here is the soundclip of the main bass riff/groove/template - 2-measure groove, just slower.

View attachment 7382541

And here is the standard notation of 6 measures.

Try to count and practice it. It's not difficult but helpful.

View attachment 7382543

More precise! AFAIK, the second bar is simplified a bit:

The first time through it sounds like he may have meant to play a triplet and stumbled a bit. Seems in the cracks to me, but perhaps this is an artifact from extracting the bass and he actually played perfectly. Something like this?

The second time through there is an added ghost note.

Sorry for the crude notation...I use MS Paint .

Feel free to revise/correct if you hear it differently.

 

[wintremute]

Play drums for 30 years then learn bass. That's what I did and it worked great!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Feel free to revise/correct if you hear it differently.

I've stopped paying attention to any minute discrepancies in transcriptions, but I used to (arrogantly) correct it, and a lot.
That's why I don't have friends at TB.
Now, I've learned how to be happy and grateful for other people's hard work and use it to my advantage.

 

[Wasnex]

I've stopped paying attention to any minute discrepancies in transcriptions, but I used to (arrogantly) correct it, and a lot.
That's why I don't have friends at TB.
Now, I've learned how to be happy and grateful for other people's hard work and use it to my advantage.

Hopefully no one gets to bent out of shape .

IMHO, sometimes minute detail matter, and sometimes they don't.

If the point is to play a serviceable bass line that is authentic to the original, the transcription looks pretty good to me (close enough). I certainly wouldn't bother revising it if I were asked to read the part in a band. I probably wouldn't even notice the disparity.

However in the context of this thread, I feel the transcription could be potentially confusing to a developing player who is trying to copy the recording as closely as possible.

 

[toughluck]

I majored in music. We read from the Ottman Music for Sight Reading. We conducted the beat and sang the rhythm and melody using solfege. The part of this that may be useful for you is learning to conduct basic beat patterns. It takes awhile to automate the beat pattern. It's been a long time and I am not very good at it anymore .

4 looks like this:
View attachment 7382255

The pattern is from your perspective (behind your hand). Learning and using this pattern can help you keep your place in regards to where you are in each measure.

I had this in my first class of primary school! We had a teacher fresh out of university who focused on music education and we did the solfege, note timing, 3/4 and 4/4 measures, everything you could do with 7-year old kids.

Nobody else I know had this in their primary school, I consider myself blessed by this.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I feel the transcription could be potentially confusing to a developing player

...; therefore, it's only about the rhythmic (kind of, displaced) 2-measure bass pattern that got my attention.
That particular Vulfpeck track has very thick texture where the left hand on the keyboard is getting mixed with the bass part.
In your provided revision of the riff's ending (very common, similar to numerous "heard-before" parts), I would replace just one note.
It's Eb before Ab.
But, it's only my opinion and I have nothing else to say about it.

 

[Wasnex]

It's Eb before Ab.
But, it's only my opinion and I have nothing else to say about it.

Still a ghost note right?

If I did it this way, I put everything on the E string.

To play an Eb ghost I would have to use the B string.

Not problem since I play a 6, but I think I would choose the top version. That's not to say my preference is right or wrong.

AFAIK Joe Dart is primarily a 4-string player and uses E standard tuning.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Does this help?
Try slowing it down.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

AFAIK Joe Dart is primarily a 4-string player and uses E standard tuning.

Here is what TKenrick said about it.

"I suspect that Joe Dart is tuned down to Eb on the original recording."