Learning syncopated or complex grooves

[CalEliteCoach]

My question is, how do you go about learning syncopated or complex rhythms or patterns? I get lost when I count or when I'm not following my notation. I play in a cover band and am a primarily self-taught bassist. I do not read music well, but I understand the basics of rhythm. I am learning "The Warmth" by Incubus. It is a pretty simple song with three major parts. The verse and chorus were easy to pick up, but the bridge is giving me trouble. The bridge has a bass and drum pattern in 4/4, I think. These are two bars of the bridge as I counted. It repeats for 12 total bars and goes back into the chorus:

𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾

𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾

To me, the beats line up as underlined:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

 

[JonathanPDX]

Anthony Wellington's "Rhythm Yardstick" lesson is a great starting point, you might be able to find a version of it on YouTube.

Every beat placement has a unique feel, just like every interval has a unique color. So, just like you can train your ear to recognize a b13 in relation to the root, you can train your ear to recognize the feel of a beat on the & of 4.

A great starting point is to clap or play one note, whatever is easiest for you without having to focus on your hands. Play the 1, then play the & of 1. Those two hits together have a specific feel and you can probably relate it to music or rhythms you already have in your head. Next play the 1, then the 2, then the 1, the & of 2, and so on. Get your ear familiar with each 8th note and where it lines up before and after a hit on the 1.

Then we do the same thing with 16th note subdivisions. I find that practicing them with a hit on the 1 helps keep your ear grounded, so you don't end up flipping the count around and tricking your ear. You can always move off of that later once you're comfortable. From there, you can combine different combinations at random or in patterns, whatever keeps you moving forward, until you can FEEL where each 16th note subdivision lands and it's unique flavor. Then when you hear a song you'll probably be able to tell what beat things land on without even counting, because you already have that rhythmic vocabulary in your head.

 

[CalEliteCoach]

I get what you are saying. I guess it will just take some time until I get the timing and feel. Thank you for the suggestion. I will add some rhythm training to my workouts.

 

[SteveCS]

...
These are two bars of the bridge
...
𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾

𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾

To me, the beats line up as underlined:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

It might help to
1) put in some bar lines (using the 1/8 note as you have, and in line with your count pattern, it amounts to 4 bars, not 2):

and
2) consolidate the notes/rests according to standard notation convention - representing the beats this way makes them much easier to read (and learn):

 

[mambo4]

+1 to rhythmic literacy, It's a super power when it comes to grasping rhythm (imo)

yes, notation will not convey every nuance
and ultimately you have to memorize and feel it
but getting there can be a foggy ocean, navigated by trial an error
rhythmic literacy turns a it into a high speed train

I also started my reading journey on Salsa/Cuban music, which helped with syncopation tremendously.
I still regularly practice with Cliff Engle's Rhythm Exercises PDF

Steve's suggestion of adding those bar lines is apt
understanding a rhythm is about understanding where each note falls within the meter and pulse
as precisely as possible

Also: Anthony's yard stick:

 

[MCS4]

I'm going to give a slightly different piece of advice, which is to also spend some time throwing notation and counting out the window and trying to just loop a part until you internalize the feel. One thing that can help with this is to listen for little "anchors" that will help you get comfortable with the groove and commit it to memory, such as if a particular note or space lines up with something another instrument is doing, for example.

This is not to suggest that working on notation, counting, and the overall theory of odd signatures, grooves, etc. isn't super helpful, because of course you will get a lot out of that stuff that will serve you well in the long run. However, I notice that a lot of the metal musicians I work with who have practically no knowledge of theory on the rhythm side or otherwise are often very good at picking up these types of things quickly simply because they spend a lot of time learning odd parts and basically approach most parts as something to be learned on its own terms rather than as something to understand by reference to a standard pattern.

 

[toughluck]

This is also another representation which I think is slightly clearer:

 

[MtManiac]

I’ve had good success with breaking it down to parts, small sections, learn each section and then string them together. And *then* practice it all with a drum machine, metronome, and/or original recording.

A small section might be just two or three notes, depending on complexity.

Pay attention to note length.

 

[toughluck]

Sorry for being pedantic: those two are not going to sound the same if you play it the way it's written right now. It needs staccato dots to make the notes shorter.

But agreed. Your notation is much easier to read and is the way I would've notated it as well (plus staccato dots). Musical notation is supposed to help, not make things more confusing.

Fixed it ;-)
Edit: And fixed it again (equalized bar lengths)

 

[doran.dragic]

This is also another representation which I think is slightly clearer:
View attachment 7381747

Eh, I already deleted my post because I was partially wrong as well. I just listened to the song. This is not the exact rhythm. But still a much better way of notating (referring to you using quarter notes).

 

[jallenbass]

 

[elgranluis]

+ 1 on the advice about learing how to read the rhythmic part of music notation.

 

[turcmic]

Was going to suggest the same video! I just watched it minutes ago. Rich is a monster player and a great teacher.

 

[matthewbrown]

+ 1 on the advice about learing how to read the rhythmic part of music notation.

Yes, because reading rhythms in standard notation gives you another way to think about and understand rhythms ("conceptualize" is the ten dollar word for it). It's like learning the circle of fifths, which gives you a richer understanding of how key centers work. We don't learn to read text because we simply want to sound out the words as we did in elementary school. We to read to read so we can understand.

 

[Jefenator]

I'm all about the notation and bar lines for reference – at least at first.
A click of some sort is good to keep you from re-setting the "1" without realizing.
1 bar at a time if you need to, as slow as you need to, practice playing the rhythm correctly, don't practice flopping around. Speed up gradually.

There is another approach where you forget about all the nerdy counting & just sing the passage with made-up syllables. (GONG-ga-GONG-ga-ga-ga... etc) That's how a visiting monster Latin piano player would work up a figure that most local players couldn't do to save their lives. (Probably helps to have been playing heavy syncopations since before he learned to walk...) Might be worth trying in parallel – especially to limber up the feel.

 

[bfields]

To me, the beats line up as underlined:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

On a quick listen, yes, I think you have it right.

Things I find helpful when I'm stuck on this kind of thing:

- put the bass down. Start out just clapping or tapping on a table or something.
- memorize it. Practice sight-reading this kind of thing too, yes, but for this case you don't want to be stuck looking at the notation.
- take it slow. You can start out ridiculously slow, to the point where it's just an easy matter of counting.
- break it down into pieces. E.g. learn that first line separately, then the second line, before you work on doing both together.
- don't spend a lot of time on it all at once. No need to beat your head against the wall, you'll learn better if you take a break and come back to it later.

In the moment it can be frustrating. Be patient, give yourself some time, one day it'll fall into place and it'll be easy.

 

[L-u-A-R]

My short version, generalised advice for this; from when I dealt with weird stuff in piano:
Break the rhythm down thoroughly.
Practice that carefully.
Speed it up steadily.
At speed, repeat 'til you 'feel' it.
Once you feel it, you can use it.

 

[Topkat13]

More practice.

 

[wintremute]

One of the "tricks" I use to help me with that stuff is for the beats that I don't play on (but feel like I should) I either tap on the body of the bass, or make a sound with my mouth. It helps my brain feel the beat that I want to play.

 

[MechaSparky]

My question is, how do you go about learning syncopated or complex rhythms or patterns? I get lost when I count or when I'm not following my notation. I play in a cover band and am a primarily self-taught bassist. I do not read music well, but I understand the basics of rhythm. I am learning "The Warmth" by Incubus. It is a pretty simple song with three major parts. The verse and chorus were easy to pick up, but the bridge is giving me trouble. The bridge has a bass and drum pattern in 4/4, I think. These are two bars of the bridge as I counted. It repeats for 12 total bars and goes back into the chorus:

𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾

𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾 𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝄾

To me, the beats line up as underlined:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

Play drums for 30 years then learn bass. That's what I did and it worked great!