I took lessons for over 4 years mostly to developed proper technique. Now, I just practice covers and get better by learning new songs and practicing my ever-changing set list. Perhaps my growth as a bass player isn't going to jump by leaps and bounds, but I'm always where I need to be in order to gig, and that's what is important to me. I think your idea is very practical.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Learning through covers?
- Thread starter Raman
- Start date
I took lessons for over 4 years mostly to developed proper technique. Now, I just practice covers and get better by learning new songs and practicing my ever-changing set list. Perhaps my growth as a bass player isn't going to jump by leaps and bounds, but I'm always where I need to be in order to gig, and that's what is important to me. I think your idea is very practical.
Yeah that's really it. If you understand scales keys and chords at a basic level you should be able to reverse engineer any song you like. If you are a James Jamerson fan (and as bass player you ought to be) , check out Jamerson Analysed
Different things. Jazz Standers are those people in the back of the room that didn't get to the venue in time to get a seat. They are notable in that it is rare a jazz venue has a full house and therefore they are rare.
This is how I do lessons with my instructor - we pick a song to learn, then analyze WHY the bass line works in the song.
When I have to come up with my own bass lines to play at church I often am using pieces of songs I like to play. I've had our Band Leader look at me and say "Ok, Nick, enough Talking Heads - someone is going to recognize Psycho Killer..."
When I have to come up with my own bass lines to play at church I often am using pieces of songs I like to play. I've had our Band Leader look at me and say "Ok, Nick, enough Talking Heads - someone is going to recognize Psycho Killer..."
uhm, it's perfectly okay to learn with songs written by others. among jazz players there's a popular opinion that after you learn 100 first jazz standards, everything will be easier.
in fact, this is the traditional method to learn: learn and play scales, etudes, songs. in every music school you will be playing music that is composed by somebody else and this will be literally on your exams.
in fact, this is the traditional method to learn: learn and play scales, etudes, songs. in every music school you will be playing music that is composed by somebody else and this will be literally on your exams.
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
Standing in the Shadows of Motown kinda sort does that a bit. It goes into depth about what's being played and then the parts are all transcribed in standard notation. Its good practice IMO for understanding note values (and reading) while learning things by ear. I got a lot out of that book. Not precisely what you're looking for, but you might want to take a look https://www.amazon.com/Standing-Shadows-Motown-Legendary-Jamerson/dp/0881888826/ .
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
I agree that it would be a good resource. Many times I have considered creating some kind of list of songs which cover specific techniques, ranging from easy to advanced. So, for example, you may want to get better at octaves, or harmonics, or 16th notes. Well there are countless songs where each of those techniques are applied, and can be used as a tool.
So yeah, it would be great
I love the idea. It's kind of like the difference between 'knowing what' and 'knowing how'
I’m kind of in the same boat as you @Raman - some formal lessons but mostly ear training and experiential learning. I did some self-teaching on chord theory…applied that to bass and pedal steel guitar. Worked with Nashville Number System a bit and that’s helped (more for arrangements than for theory but I’m seeing some patterns emerging). I’m getting into some more complex musical forms lately and have been thinking about transcribing the chord progressions and bass lines (and possibly harmonies) for a couple of those peices and see how that works. And plot that stuff our visually and see how it relates to chord theory, scales, modes, etc.
But I have no goal for this other than a deeper level of understanding. At one point, I wanted to be more adept at improvising. That’s still a vague goal. I’m more into song construction these days.
But I have no goal for this other than a deeper level of understanding. At one point, I wanted to be more adept at improvising. That’s still a vague goal. I’m more into song construction these days.
It's a good concept, but a nightmare from a licensing standpoint. Obtaining permission for all of the snippets of songs used would be a nightmare. You could say, "This is used in the first chorus of "Shake Your Money Maker, Mate" by The Beattles, but if you wanted to print the music you would need a license to do so.
I learned more about "covers" trying to Teach or Trying to figure out how to explain Theory in a song. like Key signatures & Chord progressions, like how Major & Minors are related, or what chord changes makes sense or why something sounds off in a song! I also used classical etudes to figure things out. Bach is a good one to start! maybe look into classical composers first.GL
After decades of playing the bass, I started taking guitar lessons when I was in my late 40s. I found a teacher and said that I didn't want to take a real academic approach like I did with the bass. I just wanted to bring in songs that had parts that interested me. He'd show me what the part was, which rarely took very long, but he found a way to turn it into a lesson on some related topic or another. It was super productive for me. I felt like I advanced fairly quickly toward the goals that I had set for myself. He was a great teacher and was totally on board with what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it. And I had a very clear idea about what I wanted to accomplish. It worked really well.
Sometimes I just jam along to the radio. Any station, really, and play along to the songs that come on, you are bound to stumble across something interesting, especially since so much radio is synth bass, presents interesting challenge to translate to the fretboard sometimes. And occasionally, you might find that if you bust out a bass part by the Weeknd or some popular act, people in the crowd will light up!
Reading many of your answers, I'm thinking maybe what I want is a teacher more than a book.
My favorite class in college was a second-year theory course where the formula was basically: listen to some Bach 2-part inventions and talk about them in class. Then pick one and write a paper about it. Then write your own 2-part invention in the same style. Then repeat for a fugue. Then repeat for a Hadyn string quartet. Etc.
Along the way I learned what a fugue is, what sonata form is, etc. But the *real* takeaway for me was a sort of confidence that if I sit down with a piece of music (recorded or written) and really study it carefully, I can figure out what makes it tick, and then (eventually!) I can imitate it. It's not easy, the results won't be masterpieces, but it's something you can do with enough work. It's even fun.
Anyway, thumbs up to working from real examples of music. Recent songs are tough, as people say, for intellectual property reasons and because preferences vary. I do feel like the ideal would be a teacher that would work with you on you to help you understand your specific favorite music.
But if your goal is just to learn theory, maybe don't be too picky about genre. A lot of the stuff you learn will apply across genres.
Along the way I learned what a fugue is, what sonata form is, etc. But the *real* takeaway for me was a sort of confidence that if I sit down with a piece of music (recorded or written) and really study it carefully, I can figure out what makes it tick, and then (eventually!) I can imitate it. It's not easy, the results won't be masterpieces, but it's something you can do with enough work. It's even fun.
Anyway, thumbs up to working from real examples of music. Recent songs are tough, as people say, for intellectual property reasons and because preferences vary. I do feel like the ideal would be a teacher that would work with you on you to help you understand your specific favorite music.
But if your goal is just to learn theory, maybe don't be too picky about genre. A lot of the stuff you learn will apply across genres.
What is my goal exactly? You got me wondering...
Over the years, I've learned and played countless songs by ear. I also wrote my own bass parts on more, also by ear and sight. That's how I remember all of them.
But I've long found that I've hit a plateau. It shows when I'm coming up with a new bass part for a track: It always sounds more or less like the same old tricks. Also, the learning by ear and sight approach severely limits my capacity to improvise. It dooms me to repeat what I've done before.
All in all, it's like I've learned how to play the bass, but never quite got to the underlying logic of it. Like knowing phrases in a foreign language vs actually being able to converse in it.
When I think of learning, I don't expect to be able to fully analyze and play a Jaco Pastorius jazz piece in a couple years. What I want primarily is to understand what I'm doing, so I'm more confident on what I can do next on the neck. Be more fluid at it too and be able to solo better.
Last edited:
It starts with the key. Knowing this leads us to what scale is to be used, and this leades us to what chords are in that scale, I.e. which chords could be used. Once we know the chords we need to know what order they come in the song. That order, called the chord progression, moves the song along in its journey.
Its here we decide what we will play, melody, harmony and or rhythm, all three will/can be involved in the finished song. That brings us to the scale and chords and which notes of each to use.
It's a matter of being able to understand the process and how to use all that to accomplish the mood and feel we are looking for.
First things first. Start with the key and then build from there.
Have fun, it is a rather long journey.
Its here we decide what we will play, melody, harmony and or rhythm, all three will/can be involved in the finished song. That brings us to the scale and chords and which notes of each to use.
It's a matter of being able to understand the process and how to use all that to accomplish the mood and feel we are looking for.
First things first. Start with the key and then build from there.
Have fun, it is a rather long journey.
Last edited:
I can totally relate. I now have a teacher after advice from this forum and it's all starting to become clearer. I was self-taught and learned through TAB and covers. I got to a decent technical level but had no idea what I was playing. Just monkey see monkey do. I wanted more and it sounds like you do, too.
Zoom lessons are great for people like us who can play the instrument and don't necessarily need knee to knee, but need that understanding and theory side of things. Plenty of teachers on here that would be more than happy to help! Honestly I can't recommend it enough, you won't regret it.
Don't stop playing songs though! That's what it's all about after all
