Learning to read standard notation: hand positions?

[OldSchoolFlats]

Wasn't sure if this was a general instruction question or notation/tab...
...hopefully I am in the right place.

I want to learn to read standard notation, and have the Hal Leonard books 1-3. Plenty willing to put-in time, but wondering about the 1-2-4 fingering system, with "positions" where your fingers only cover 3 frets. While a bit harder on the low frets, I always tried to cover 4 frets. "Back in the day", I played exclusively by ear, and always covered 4 frets.

Question: When learning to "read", is it important to use the 3-fret positions, or do some people use positions that cover 4 frets on the low frets?

Background: I'm an "old geezer" getting back into bass for fun. Played for years off/on since teens, but never professionally. Read on clarinet and sax when young, but never good at sight-reading. Self-taught reading on bass enough for playing standard-notation from hand-written bass parts provided by group lead for a few months 35 years ago (damn!) , but I developed my own self-taught "positions" covering 4 frets. Never took lessons. Was cheap, and this was pre-internet.

Only covering 3 frets feels "wrong", but I realize it is a "stretch" on the low frets to cover 4. Candid advice is most welcome!

 

[Malcolm35]

As we play one note at a time does it really matter which you use? I use a 4 fret pattern and side if I need to.

 

[Papageno]

What you read has nothing to do with how you finger it. These are completely disconnected things. What you read is what was put on paper by someone who does not know anything about your left hand technique. It is entirely up to you to decide on which string and with which finger you want play the music. This is the big difference between standard music notation and tabs. Unlike tabs which tells you where to put your fingers (but not which finger though), standard notation gives greater freedom and responsibility.

Chosing which string and finger to use depends signicantly of what comes before and after the note currently being played. So it requires you to read ahead (typically 1 bar ahead) to be able to anticipate. If you are just starting, you will find this difficult; so start slooowly.

 

[dreamadream99]

I think you will find that, by and large, more electric bassists use one finger per fret, than the 1-2-4 system.

 

[Papageno]

Even players who use 1-2-3-4 as their default left hand technique it who frequently revert to 1-2-4 in low positions when playing stuff that does not need 1-2-3-4 such as fifths or octaves: those are much more comfortably played with 1-4 than 1-3.

 

[Papageno]

Reading music (standard notation) involves 2 tasks:
1. being able to translate written notes on the score into actual pitches and rhythms
2. being able to produce a given musical phrase on your instrument

It is best to separate these 2 tasks.

Task 1 is about the ability to hear (and sing) the music you read, both in terms of pitches and rhythms. It is universal (independent of the instrument). The best way to train it is to practice away from your bass, by singing what you read. Start with simple material, and increase progressively the difficulty.

Task 2 is about your knowledge of your fingerboard, and how to chose fingerings. You can best practice it by playing scales and arpeggios (all keys, all modes, all chord types) over the entire fingerboard using as many different fingerings as possible. Avoid relying on "patterns".

 

[chilensko]

I learned to read music with a upright bass book called Simandl. It was very helpful cause you go through positions. The first position is call half position (funny name) which is the F.
On the upright you use only three fingers and the book comes with that notation but you can adapt it for four fingers.

 

[forrestlaw]

I tried to use one finger per fret (1-2-3-4) for a couple of years and usually ended up with some mild pain on the outside of my palm from having to stretch to cover all four frets. Once I switched to my current teacher, who is big on the Simandl book, I switched to 1-2-4 and I find it much more comfortable. I do change to 1-2-3-4 once I get up to about frets 5-7, but I find 1-2-4 much easier on my hands in the lower frets.

 

[jj.833]

I play in big band so I had to learn to sight read fluently (enough). Regarding fingerings, I developed my way which I describe below. I think you should not much care for fingerings indicated in sight reading books. First, invent your own fingering that works for you. Then, if you feel a need to, compare your fingering to the fingering given by the book, and look for good ideas.

When sight reading, the biggest technical issue for a player is shifting positions, because you can't look at the fretboard. My solution is:
- I mostly play 1234 fingering in the lowest position, because I can play all semitones from low E to C on G in one position. To avoid physical problems, I strongly and knowingly incorporate [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and avoid any avoidable finger stretching. I never put all four fingers on all four frets at one time, not even when playing Chameleon.
- When I need to go higher, I mostly use 124 fingering, because the shifts are shorter and more frequent this way. The shorter the shift, the easier and surer its 'blind' execution. The higher frequency of shifts keeps your forearm in constant movement, which is more fluent for fast playing than staying in one position for a longer time and then moving abruptly to another. I agree with @chilensko that Simandl 1 is great for this.

However, when I don't sight read, I use the great benefits of fretboard dots with pleasure; this results in using 1234 or 124 anywhere on the fretboard, choosing the fingering that is more comfortable at the moment.

 

[SteveBassJr]

I have been working thru Jeff Berlins reading book since Feb. I find that in the beginning I was using the first 4 fret area the most. As the book advances it includes higher notes like the "e" on the G string. I find that I have moved my hand position to easily fret those higher notes and work my way back to the first position. Almost gliding back and forth. I am actually really enjoying the new hand position approach that I am discovering. As long as your fretboard knowledge is up to snuff, it will all just happen as it should.

 

[Samatza]

Even players who use 1-2-3-4 as their default left hand technique it who frequently revert to 1-2-4 in low positions when playing stuff that does not need 1-2-3-4 such as fifths or octaves: those are much more comfortably played with 1-4 than 1-3.

This is exactly how I do it, if the line requires one finger per fret that’s what I do, if not 1,2,4 is fine and your hand can relax for a bit.

 

[JRA]

Candid advice is most welcome!

What you read has nothing to do with how you finger it.

welcome to TB, @OldSchoolFlats! good luck with your reading chops!

 

[SteveCS]

I learned to read music with a upright bass book called Simandl. It was very helpful cause you go through positions. The first position is call half position (funny name) which is the F.
On the upright you use only three fingers and the book comes with that notation but you can adapt it for four fingers.

The main point of 1-2-4 and positions is to promote the good posture necessary for precise intonation. With fretted electric bass this is less of an issue, although good posture still helps with other technical aspects such as accurate shifting and noise reduction. And remember that with a 3-finger technique, be it 1-2-4, 1-3-4 or 1-2-3, every note can be played in any of 3 positions.

 

[mambo4]

with "positions" where your fingers only cover 3 frets. While a bit harder on the low frets, I always tried to cover 4 frets.

I tried to use one finger per fret (1-2-3-4) for a couple of years and usually ended up with some mild pain on the outside of my palm from having to stretch to cover all four frets.

A misconception about 124 and 1234 fingering is that your left hand is somehow locked in place and all left hand motion "in a postion" is forbidden. After seeing both Ray Brown and Rocco Prestia live I saw the truth: You are allowed to move your left hand to reach the note. Using your thumb on the back of the neck as a reference point, you can slide up and make 124 span 4 (or 5) frets as needed. Anchoring your left hand and spidering your fingers uncomfortably is unnecessary.

To avoid physical problems, I strongly and knowingly incorporate [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and avoid any avoidable finger stretching.

wisdom!

 

[Slevage]

What you read has nothing to do with how you finger it. These are completely disconnected things. What you read is what was put on paper by someone who does not know anything about your left hand technique. It is entirely up to you to decide on which string and with which finger you want play the music. This is the big difference between standard music notation and tabs. Unlike tabs which tells you where to put your fingers (but not which finger though), standard notation gives greater freedom and responsibility.

Chosing which string and finger to use depends signicantly of what comes before and after the note currently being played. So it requires you to read ahead (typically 1 bar ahead) to be able to anticipate. If you are just starting, you will find this difficult; so start slooowly.

This is not the case with well written “method books”. The writers start simple and as the lessons advance, the interval jumps get more difficult and odd. Then when you go to read an actual chart, it is a walk in the park.
I have many brass playing and reed playing friends that are aces at sight reading (and sight transposing) because of their formal training that includes difficult exercises.

 

[lfmn16]

I use the 1,2,4 because I learned using the Simandl method even though I was playing electric bass at the time. When I started on upright bass, I didn't have to make an adjustment in my fingering. I don't like to stretch, it's too likely to cause injuries. Learn to shift and you can play any bass comfortably. If you ever decide to pick up the string bass, you don't have to relearn your fingering.

 

[mrcbass]

1,2,4/1,2,3,4 are just different ways to get something done. They are the most prominent ways to train your fingers. What's ultimately important tis that you find the way to reproduce notes in proper order and time (whether you are reading or not). If for some reason, using your knee caps instead of fingers works best for you, then that's what you should do. I find that I use a combination of the two traditional methods - for me it's not one size fits all. This is probably terrible technique, but I might even use different fingers for the same note/same string during a single phrase. Whatever get you by is the right answer.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I taught myself to read electric bass music, but had a background with trumpet, french horn, and baritone (TC). So it was mostly transposing what I knew from treble clef to what is written in bass clef. What is more complicated with stringed instruments like electric bass and guitar versus brass, woodwind, or piano is that if piano has F, A, C written there is exactly one place and one place only to play those three notes (ignore the transpose button). With electric bass, you could play the F at the 13th fret on the E string, the 8th fret of the A, or the 3rd fret of the D string. Which one is the best? It depends, there are tonal differences and what is the next note you're going to play, or the next phrase you'll play. You need to play the notes written, but glancing ahead to make your plan of attack for the upcoming phrases. When I first started reading on EB, I had my left hand stuck in first position and then I would creep up the G string as I needed higher notes.

I recommend this book to help you learn the fretboard and break out of the first position blues.
MEL BAY'S COMPLETE JAZZ BASS BOOK - HIDDEN - BassBooks.com

 

[dan1952]

I had already played electric bass for several years before I started studying the upright, where the Simandl method was used. Somehow, I had already been using 1-2-4, despite playing guitar and having fairly large hands. It just seemed to work for me. I still use 1-2-4 up to around the thumb position, even on electric.

 

[bigjames]

Agreed with most of the responses, but wanted to add that reading music is different from where best to play the notes. As mentioned earlier, it comes down to reading ahead a little to determine where you want your hand to be on the fretboard to finish phrases and be in a good position for the next one.