Least favorite P pickup?

[dfp]

Interesting, because AlNiCo 5 is a stronger magnet than AlNiCo 2.

The poles on the D&G side of the V-Mod II looks like a typical AlNiCo 5 precision pickup to me, whereas the E&A side has much larger magnets - presumably to balance out the total flux of the two different halves.

The other thing that I've encountered (especially here on TalkBass) is people swapping the two halves around, in order to make the E&A sound more typically defined AlNiCo 5, and take advantage of the AlNiCo 2 gluey warmth to tone down the D&G strings.

From what I recall, the original Fender marketing etc said that E&A = AlNiCo 2 / D&G = AlNiCo 5

Fender’s spec sheet for the Am Pro II P bass says Alnico 4 on the E/A and Alnico 2 on the D/G, which seems to match what I thought I was hearing. Though oddly it also says each side is beveled, which doesn’t seem right unless they mean one side is very slightly beveled and the other is highly beveled…

See the bottom right corner of page 6 of the spec sheet

https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/SM_019393XXXX_Am_Pro_II_Precision_Bass.pdf

 

[dfp]

And here’s the spec sheet for the original Am Pro P bass with V-Mod I pickup.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It says it had Alnico 2 for E/A and Alnico 5 for D/G.

 

[bassdude51]

My .02 cent comment. Any AlNiCo 5 P Bass pickup that has more than 11.75k ohms. Too much unclarity for me. (9k to 10.5k favorites)

 

[Wood and Wire]

Fender’s spec sheet for the Am Pro II P bass says Alnico 4 on the E/A and Alnico 2 on the D/G, which seems to match what I thought I was hearing. Though oddly it also says each side is beveled, which doesn’t seem right unless they mean one side is very slightly beveled and the other is highly beveled…

See the bottom right corner of page 6 of the spec sheet

https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/SM_019393XXXX_Am_Pro_II_Precision_Bass.pdf

Yeah, that's what I was saying about the user manuals : it's just a total disaster of mistakes (check out the diagrams in the owners manual where almost none of the numbers in the illustration match the descriptions in the key).

The pickup info in the service manual is bassackwards, and like you've noticed; it says AlNiCo 4 - which if correct, flys in the face of all the other promo they, and their dealers put out at the time, for both the basses, and guitars.

It would also be the first AlNiCo 4 pickup I've ever even heard of, let alone encountered.


Given how many errors there are in that documentation (the photo of the E string over the bridge saddle, in the owners manual, is not what I would consider an exemplary guide for new users), I just wouldn't consider anything in it to be gospel.

 

[Wood and Wire]

And here’s the spec sheet for the original Am Pro P bass with V-Mod I pickup.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It says it had Alnico 2 for E/A and Alnico 5 for D/G.

That aligns with the what I was saying, and I believe is the general consensus re. the Am Pro II (you're the first person I've heard say it's the other way around).

Apparently the 1st version of the V-Mod didn't match the prototype specs, and was considered too bright; hence the V-Mod II, which adhered to the original prototype spec.

I assumed the change, to darken it down, was probably down to the winding (as it impacted both halves), but it would be interesting to know if it was actually a change from AlNiCo 5, to AlNiCo 4, and they just failed to inform the marketing team, and dealers...

 

[dfp]

Ok. Idk about everyone else’s take, or the V-Mod I, as I never played one. But I definitely played the V-Mod II, and it definitely sounded like what’s on the AmPro II spec sheet (Alnico 2 in the G/D side for a mellower sound), and it definitely wasn’t for me.

 

[dfp]

That aligns with the what I was saying, and I believe is the general consensus re. the Am Pro II (you're the first person I've heard say it's the other way around).

Apparently the 1st version of the V-Mod didn't match the prototype specs, and was considered too bright; hence the V-Mod II, which adhered to the original prototype spec.

I assumed the change, to darken it down, was probably down to the winding (as it impacted both halves), but it would be interesting to know if it was actually a change from AlNiCo 5, to AlNiCo 4, and they just failed to inform the marketing team, and dealers...

The first V Mod would be too bright on top if you had mellow Alnico 2 for the E/A, which is already placed closer to the neck, and Alnico 5 for the G/D, and closer to the bridge. That ought to be a crazily mismatched set. I could see users finding the top end “too bright” bc of how toned down the low end was by comparison. Purely speculation, if the AmPro I spec sheet states correctly.

 

[dfp]

What if the service manuals are correct and marketing is where it got mixed up? I give engineers making the spec sheets more benefits of the doubt than marketing department.

Yeah, that's what I was saying about the user manuals : it's just a total disaster of mistakes (check out the diagrams in the owners manual where almost none of the numbers in the illustration match the descriptions in the key).

The pickup info in the service manual is bassackwards, and like you've noticed; it says AlNiCo 4 - which if correct, flys in the face of all the other promo they, and their dealers put out at the time, for both the basses, and guitars.

It would also be the first AlNiCo 4 pickup I've ever even heard of, let alone encountered.


Given how many errors there are in that documentation (the photo of the E string over the bridge saddle, in the owners manual, is not what I would consider an exemplary guide for new users), I just wouldn't consider anything in it to be gospel.

 

[Wood and Wire]

The first V Mod would be too bright on top if you had mellow Alnico 2 for the E/A, which is already placed closer to the neck, and Alnico 5 for the G/D, and closer to the bridge. That ought to be a crazily mismatched set. I could see users finding the top end “too bright” bc of how toned down the low end was by comparison. Purely speculation, if the AmPro I spec sheet states correctly.

Yeah, but that would be a colossal deviation from the approved prototype spec, if the stories (from reliable sources - I seem to remember one was an official Fender blog about pickups, but I may have conflated two different articles) are true that the V-Mod II matched the original approved spec that was supposed to have gone into production the first time around.

 

[Wood and Wire]

What if the service manuals are correct and marketing is where it got mixed up? I give engineers making the spec sheets more benefits of the doubt than marketing department.

I already said that's possible - but just look at the owners manual for the unbelievable number of errors it features (like nobody proof read it, at all).

 

[skycruiser]

I really didn't like the DP127 Split P pickup. Dark and lifeless to my ear.

 

[Bent77]

Ok. Idk about everyone else’s take, or the V-Mod I, as I never played one. But I definitely played the V-Mod II, and it definitely sounded like what’s on the AmPro II spec sheet (Alnico 2 in the G/D side for a mellower sound), and it definitely wasn’t for me.

I'm going to agree with your analysis. I also pulled mine in less than an hour (bought the body used/loaded)
Fender Originals went right in there

 

[matti777]

Ok. Idk about everyone else’s take, or the V-Mod I, as I never played one. But I definitely played the V-Mod II, and it definitely sounded like what’s on the AmPro II spec sheet (Alnico 2 in the G/D side for a mellower sound), and it definitely wasn’t for me.

V MOD I wasn't highly touted. I pulled mine in favor of the Aguilar 4P60. I'm not going back.

 

[ctmullins]

Yes, the P pickup is my least favorite.

Actually it’s my second least favorite. The J pickup is my least favorite of all.

 

[kbs21]

DiMarzio Split P

 

[tvbop]

I dont know much about P PU's. But any example that lacks strong mid range would, be my least fav. Had an SPB-1 which lasted about an hour... very weak in the mid range.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

I see a lot of talk about everyone's favorite P pickups but what is your least favorite? And why?

For me it would have to be the Fender CS62's. They were the most polite and sterile pickups I've ever used. I tried so many different strings and fiddled with the height to make them work, but never could. I disliked them so much I'd take a random ceramic pickup from a $100 Squier over the CS62 any day.

Interesting..I have a 70s Japanese pbass ash and maple body with a import underwound alnico 5 p pickup that sounds similar to what you describe and nothing like the common import ceramics lol.

For me Duncan SPB2 was hot but weird eq couldn't make it work.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Fender’s spec sheet for the Am Pro II P bass says Alnico 4 on the E/A and Alnico 2 on the D/G, which seems to match what I thought I was hearing. Though oddly it also says each side is beveled, which doesn’t seem right unless they mean one side is very slightly beveled and the other is highly beveled…

See the bottom right corner of page 6 of the spec sheet

https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/SM_019393XXXX_Am_Pro_II_Precision_Bass.pdf

I finally heard back from Fender, and they double checked : the spec sheet is correct.

You were right to have faith in Fender’s documentation, and your ears.


What I find particularly strange about this design choice, is Fender’s own descriptions of the different grades of magnets, in their document “A Description Of AlNiCo Magnets”

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On the basis of their own descriptions, why would they even bother with developing a pickup using AlNiCo4? (that said, I could link several examples of a stock Am Pro II Precision sounding terrific - and I don’t really have a problem with the sound of mine).

It’s a useful lesson, in not putting too much faith in online “experts”, gurus, salespeople, etc, and to not be too cynical of large corporations published data.


Of course, it’s possible that the spec sheet / service manual is wrong (given the basic errors on pages 16 & 17 of the user manual), and that the service team contact was simply referencing that data in the sincere belief that it was accurate; but in all honesty I think we can accept their statement in good faith, and reliably conclude that E & A = AlNiCo4, and D & G = AlNiCo 2.

 

[dfp]

I finally heard back from Fender, and they double checked : the spec sheet is correct.

View attachment 7384804
View attachment 7384805

You were right to have faith in Fender’s documentation, and your ears.


What I find particularly strange about this design choice, is Fender’s own descriptions of the different grades of magnets, in their document “A Description Of AlNiCo Magnets”

[This invalid link has been removed]


View attachment 7384830

View attachment 7384831

View attachment 7384833

On the basis of their own descriptions, why would they even bother with developing a pickup using AlNiCo4? (that said, I could link several examples of a stock Am Pro II Precision sounding terrific - and I don’t really have a problem with the sound of mine).

It’s a useful lesson, in not putting too much faith in online “experts”, gurus, salespeople, etc, and to not be too cynical of large corporations published data.


Of course, it’s possible that the spec sheet / service manual is wrong (given the basic errors on pages 16 & 17 of the user manual), and that the service team contact was simply referencing that data in the sincere belief that it was accurate; but in all honesty I think we can accept their statement in good faith, and reliably conclude that E & A = AlNiCo4, and D & G = AlNiCo 2.

Wow, thx for the deep dive… and for validating my ears! Lol

Ok, I am sort of just guessing here, but I suspect originally fender thought of the first V mod P bass pickup as a way to tone down the bright top end on the G/D strings. They probably intended that side to be Alnico 2. In the first iteration of the pickup, however, they accidentally put the Alnico 2 on the lowest strings, the E/A. They got the opposite of the intended effect. In the revised version they corrected it, The V-mod II pickup has Alnico 2 for the G/D string. Then to smooth out the transition from high strings to low strings they used Alnico 4 for the E/A instead of Alnico 5 so there would not be so much of a stark difference between the two sides. At least that’s what I imagine they were thinking. And good on them for thinking outside the box, maybe some people like it, I just don’t! Cheers!

 

[maturanesa]

anything with ceramic magnets bc ceramics sound ugly, have too much blurry low mids and lack clarity and top end sweetness compared to Alnico 5. Literally any 15$ Chinese ebay Alnico 5 pickup sounds vastly superior to any ceramic magnet pickup for any Fender type instrument I have heard.

Ditto overwounds and anything like Quarter Pounders. Lacks the clarity and top end a classic P should have IMHO.

And one more newly discovered disliked P pickup: Fender V-Mod II. Tried it in the store on a lovely Am Pro II P, the low strings sounded pretty good and more or less like a P bass… the upper sounded like suddenly a blanket pulled over the speaker… strikingly unbalanced to my ear, like 2 different instruments. Epic fail IMHO

Bartolonis are ceramic