Double Bass Left Hand Fingering Styles.

[VitaminC]

I have been playing double bass since September 1, 2010. As you can probably deduct, my skill sare novice, at best. I bow German style, which is not too uncommon, but my left hand is where things are odd for most. I use the 1-3-4 fingering method (italian).
When I first started playing I found the 1-2-4 stretch to be significantly harder and significantly more uncomfortable. My teacher and I have an on going inside joke, but I do see how he can do 1-2-4, and he can't see how i do 1-3-4. I have never seen anyone else use the 1-3-4 method, though I do imagine it would be as common in the US as it would be in Europe or South America.
I was talking to one bassist and he said that there were many disadvantages to the 1-3-4 method, but he did not going in to detail.

I am curious, what are the pro's and con's of both hand styles?

 

[PaulCannon]

My biggest concern would be that the third and fourth finger share a tendon. I have a very difficult time controlling those fingers completely independent of each other, and I would be very careful about putting too much strain on that tendon. Tendons cannot be worked the way muscles are. Overworking a tendon can cause serious, long term damage.

My other problem with the 1-3-4 system is that it cuts out the middle finger, which is the strongest, and most reliable, finger for most bassists.

I would like to point out that the typical 1-2-4 system does not have to be a "stretch." Working with a completely relaxed hand, is should be possible to find a hand shape and position which keeps your fingers comfortably and reliably spaced.

Playing the double bass is not a natural thing for our bodies to do. It takes time and patience to develop the skills, motions, and physical accommodations which are necessary to master the instrument. Some things will come naturally, some things will be difficult. I would strongly urge you to spend some time to learn how to play with the 1-2-4 system while you still consider yourself a beginner.

It may be entirely possible that with your anatomy, the 1-3-4 system is more suited to you. However, I think it may be best if you save that idea for later in your bass-playing life once you have a solid understanding of the basic techniques.

 

[VitaminC]

It may be entirely possible that with your anatomy, the 1-3-4 system is more suited to you. However, I think it may be best if you save that idea for later in your bass-playing life once you have a solid understanding of the basic techniques.

See, my problem with the 1-2-4 is that it cause pain in the tendons on the back of my hand and wrist( side opposite of thumb if the thumb is pointing up), the 3-4 does not. Also, the all the fingers stay down so the question of a loss of grip is out of the question in regards ot the 4th finger.

 

[VitaminC]

Also, Mods can this thread please be moved to the Orchestra Technique sections?

 

[PaulCannon]

See, my problem with the 1-2-4 is that it cause pain in the tendons on the back of my hand and wrist( side opposite of thumb if the thumb is pointing up), the 3-4 does not. Also, the all the fingers stay down so the question of a loss of grip is out of the question in regards ot the 4th finger.

I think everybody has experienced something similar at one point or another in their development. For me, using the French bow was extremely painful after more than 20 or 30 minutes of continuous play. It took years for me to find a comfortable way to manage the bow, but the results paid off.

If you experience pain in anything you do, then something is wrong. Like I said, it's possible your hand just isn't fit for the 1-2-4 method. However, it strikes me as far more likely that there is a more simple explanation. Perhaps the angle or direction your hand faces in relation to the neck, perhaps the set up on the instrument is unusual.

It would behoove you to be less hasty to throw out the very idea of 1-2-4. Continue to play and work with 1-3-4 so that you can keep progressing and learning. Instead, maybe take ten minutes a day and experiment with the idea of using 1-2-4. Be less demanding of results, and assume the role of a curious observer.

See if there's a way to minimize the amount of muscular effort you need. I try to play with an almost completely relaxed hand and arm. The weight of my arm and shoulder is transferred into the pads of my fingers, and there is a small amount of torque within the hand to achieve a completely solid connection to the fingerboard. This necessitates a loose hand position. That means the 1-2-4 system, for me, is NOT a rigid hand shape. Perhaps gently lifting your first finger as you move to the fourth could help you find what you need.

You are not the only person who plays with a 1-3-4 system and I don't mean to sound dogmatic. However, I do not personally know any bass players who employ this system and as I've expressed above, I have serious concerns about the anatomical functionality of the system.

When you make a major alteration to your technique, there needs to be a legitimate musical or functional reason for doing so. You've given your reasons for the change and I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not convinced that, at your stage, it was the best decision. Avoiding something because it's hard can be very limiting. If I did that every time I encountered something uncomfortable or difficult, I would never have gotten anywhere.

Many apologies if that sounds harsh. I don't know you, and I've not seen you play. Nor am I your teacher. 1-3-4 might just be the thing for you. Best of luck, and happy bassing.

 

[VitaminC]

If you experience pain in anything you do, then something is wrong. Like I said, it's possible your hand just isn't fit for the 1-2-4 method. However, it strikes me as far more likely that there is a more simple explanation. Perhaps the angle or direction your hand faces in relation to the neck, perhaps the set up on the instrument is unusual.

I don't think i am doing anything wrong, but i will surely look into it. I did have history with it in the past, oh well, i have a new topic for next lesson.

It would behoove you to be less hasty to throw out the very idea of 1-2-4. Continue to play and work with 1-3-4 so that you can keep progressing and learning. Instead, maybe take ten minutes a day and experiment with the idea of using 1-2-4. Be less demanding of results, and assume the role of a curious observer.

Sounds like a plan, Stan.


My right arm is typically effortless when it comes to playing, i do not seems to have many problems, if any at all. I am slowly growing more and more comfortable with the weight-of-the-arm method.

My problem is, like you, I have never met another 1-3-4'er. I know they exist, but they are few and far between. I have heard all the rumors that my method can cause tendonitis and all the misery related, but if that was the case then why do so many other countries use it as a standard method?

Happy Bassing to you as well.

 

[jtlownds]

The 1, 3, 4 fingering system is an old school thing that appears to be dying out. Prior to the 50's there were a lot more 1, 3, 4 players around. I have been playing the 1, 3, 4 system since I started on bass in 1956, and 55 years later, I have never had any tendon problems. So, I take the suggestion that it may cause hand injuries with a grain of salt. I am no expert on this subject, but, I suspect that the 1, 3, 4 system was the standard in the 19th century and before. I would be willing to bet that Dragonetti used the 1, 3, 4 system. If it was good enough for him, then it is good enough for me.

 

[btownbass]

I would be willing to bet that Dragonetti used the 1, 3, 4 system. If it was good enough for him, then it is good enough for me.

I think Dragonetti actually used a 1-2-3-4 system, like modern bass guitarists. Apparently he was a very large dude.
You can check out the facts here: http://books.google.com/books?id=4f...&resnum=2&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
(I don't recommend paying $140 for this book though!)

I would not recommend using the 1-3-4 method, but if you are interested in exploring the possibilities of this system then you should check out Bille's method (He teaches 1-3-4 if I remember correctly). Invalid Link Removed

The main reason I would not use the 1-3-4 method is that you would be hard pressed to find a teacher in the US who would be able to help you with it.

Best of luck!