Left hand technique

[SteveCS]

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You said my system was “mostly” good. No, for me it’s ALL good …essential in fact. People can/will ignore/disagree with all/some of it … fine. The proof of it for me is that I can now play discomfort-free to a high standard for as long as I want. Others may benefit similarly if they take the same route. Each of us has to work out what is optimum for us.
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Right - there is no universal truth here, rather 'variations on a theme'. I probably do much of what you say, and have been using the same basic approach for close to 40 years, including the 'floating thumb' from long before it was brought to wider public attention by Willis. I am certainly not dogmatic about my left hand but that comes from experience. Sometimes my thumb is vertical, sometimes diagonal and sometimes parallel with the neck. Sometimes I use a 1-2-4 Simandl-style fingering, sometimes 1-3-4 Bille-style and sometimes a 'cello-esque 1-2-3-4. Sometimes I shift and other times I pivot on the thumb. And all the time playing perfectly in tune. One thing I don't do is over-curl my fingers - for me every joint from elbow to digit contributes to getting the tip down in the right place and at the right angle, which spreads the load and makes for longer levers. Longer levers = greater mechanical advantage = lower input effort for the same output force.

But the breathing thing is a really good point - it not only helps with posture and relaxation, but also helps produce better music, IME.

 

[Geepers]

One thing I don't do is over-curl my fingers

Looking at your photo (thanks for that!) I realise thats more or less me too. I guess I call it “curled” because I see so many playing with virtually flat fingers (to aid left hand damping I presume) … was just trying to differentiate from that.

 

[swink]

playing your bass too high on your body is dorky.

Ladies and gentlemen may I introduce you to the "King" of Dorkiness....

Why do I feel I better stop posting pictures now....

 

[SteveCS]

Looking at your photo (thanks for that!) I realise thats more or less me too. I guess I call it “curled” because I see so many playing with virtually flat fingers (to aid left hand damping I presume) … was just trying to differentiate from that.

As always, the problem with static images is that they really don't convey the reality, which is that the hands and fingers have to actually move to make music.

 

[Killing Floor]

Ladies and gentlemen may I introduce you to the "King" of Dorkiness....

Why do I feel I better stop posting pictures now....

My eyes go to a baby jaguar themed Hawaiian shirt and a rolled scrunchy headband.
The good at music gene is dominant over the dress right gene here.

 

[Lobster11]

I'm just trying to imagine what kind of position his right arm would have to be in to play fingerstyle.

 

[SteveCS]

I'm just trying to imagine what kind of position his right arm would have to be in to play fingerstyle.

It ain't pretty (and there's that wet finger again):

 

[Les Fret]

That Jaydee rocks! Best sound he ever had....

 

[chris_b]

Good technique is always good technique. . . . but good is a much wider concept for bass guitar than it is for double bass.

IMO almost any technique works, if you can get to the notes quickly, accurately and without stretching or hurting yourself. Don't put any part of you body under strain and if it is uncomfortable change what you are doing.

I think my technique is pretty good but during the night it will change dramatically from good to bad and back again. The one thing I found that helped my hand/wrist/arm/shoulder/back health, was playing with a much lighter touch. Use the power of your amp and stroke the strings. All your joints will thank you.

 

[lostreality]

I see a lot of people hold their bass like a guitar - slung low and basically horizontal. This makes it difficult to exercise the textbook technique

I wear mine higher and hold it at a bit of an angle, which makes keeping my thumb behind the fretboard easy.

I'm sure the first technique is fine if you like to stay on one or two strings and just move up and down the neck, but I like to jump strings a little more when I play and the second technique works well for that

 

[Geepers]

Jack Bruce’s left hand here is a perfect example of what I’m talking about: thumb always points to the nut and the fingers don’t separate much but mostly move as a whole. No chance of injury here because the hand is always tension-free. Sure, he would have trouble playing Jaco with this technique but I don’t think he was too concerned



Same thing with Carol Kaye here:



i guess my point in this thread is this: use “Jaco” left hand technique (thumb pointing to ceiling, big finger stretches) when you need to play “Jaco”. When you don’t - ie 99% of the time for the average working bassist - use this Kaye/Bruce/Macartney/Prestia etc technique (thumb points to nut, fingers stay together and move as a whole) and save your hand… even if your teacher frowns at you

 

[byacey]

Jack Bruce’s left hand here is a perfect example of what I’m talking about: thumb always points to the nut and the fingers don’t separate much but mostly move as a whole. No chance of injury here because the hand is always tension-free. Sure, he would have trouble playing Jaco with this technique but I don’t think he was too concerned



Same thing with Carol Kaye here:



i guess my point in this thread is this: use “Jaco” left hand technique (thumb pointing to ceiling, big finger stretches) when you need to play “Jaco”. When you don’t - ie 99% of the time for the average working bassist - use this Kaye/Bruce/Macartney/Prestia etc technique (thumb points to nut, fingers stay together and move as a whole) and save your hand… even if your teacher frowns at you

In the first example, it appears the base of the thumb where it meets the hand is resting on the back of the neck, with the thumb wrapped around the back of the neck. I don't think this is very good left hand posture. Carol Kaye's image shows the pad of her thumb sliding more or less in the centre on the back of the neck. This frees up the finger muscles for more agility.

 

[winston]

One of the problems with the "rules" is that they ignore individual physiology. You can break certain of those rules and maintain a neutral wrist position IF you have big hands. I have ginormous hands, I play 5'ers with 1 7/8" necks, and I can wrap my thumb to the B string without getting my wrist out of a good ergonomic position. If I try to play with my thumb behind my 2nd finger on the middle of the neck, it forces my wrist into a very non neutral position. Most people probably shouldn't do exactly what I do, but for me, it's absolutely not a problem.

I think a lot of the "rules" for playing bass were transferred over from upright to electric, without anyone bothering to notice that the two instruments are very different ergonomically - the ideal position rules for one are probably not ideal for the other.

Your post is the one that matches my experience…ergonomic problems I had went away when I realized maintaining relaxed unbent wrists was critical for my personal health (including computer usage, cutting food in the kitchen, driving on roadtrips, etc.). This means my own “proper” thumb position depends on the bass, # of strings, neck width, whether I’m standing or sitting, and may or may not mean thumb is in middle of neck opposite 2nd finger.

 

[Watchootognbout]

One picture of a bassists fretting hand is not a sole representation of every single playing position that they use.

 

[Geepers]

All these posts are confirming my original premise that teachers that say “this is how you must hold your left hand” are doing students a disservice - and possibly (probably) leading them to injury. The left hand changes all the time. A lot of teachers don’t tell you that. They say “spread the fingers, one finger per fret, thumb behind second finger” and leave it at that, implying that any deviation from that is poor technique.

 

[hbarcat]

The guitar virtuoso, Tommy Emmanuel says that the proper technique is what works to get you the results you want. He learned that from his mentor, Chet Atkins.

When learning any skill, conforming to a well tested standard of technique will certainly yield results when achieving competence, and doing so quickly and efficiently, but perhaps at the cost of innovation, and even eventual greatness.

 

[Les Fret]

The guitar virtuoso, Tommy Emmanuel says that the proper technique is what works to get you the results you want. He learned that from his mentor, Chet Atkins.

I agree to some point. But that doesn't help beginners at all. If you are teaching you have to set some basic 'rules'. If you say to a (beginning) student 'just do what you like and what works for you' that will not yield good results in the end. So better learn the tested way first and when you know what you are doing and why, you can break the rules. But don't break the rules if you have no idea what you are doing or what is coming. If you only want to play root notes all this doesn't matter, but if you want to play more than that you have to have a good technical basis.

 

[SteveCS]

The guitar virtuoso, Tommy Emmanuel says that the proper technique is what works to get you the results you want. He learned that from his mentor, Chet Atkins.

When learning any skill, conforming to a well tested standard of technique will certainly yield results when achieving competence, and doing so quickly and efficiently, but perhaps at the cost of innovation, and even eventual greatness.

With you almost to the end. I'm not sure that conforming to the/an established set of techniques stifles innovation or prevents greatness. I tend to think more along the lines of necessity being the mother of invention - if you hear it in your head you will find a way to play it. But having good fundamentals drilled into your hands will always support further development and exploration better than an incoherent set of tricks that impress and make bold statements but fails to sustain, and ultimately prevents, progress.

So better learn the tested way first and when you know what you are doing and why, you can break the rules. But don't break the rules if you have no idea what you are doing or what is coming.

Exactly! In that context I would consider it extending or expanding the method rather than bending, breaking or rejecting the 'rules'.

 

[hbarcat]

With you almost to the end. I'm not sure that conforming to the/an established set of techniques stifles innovation or prevents greatness.

You're inferring something that I didn't say, or even imply.

I'm merely saying that there are countless examples of great musicians with innovative techniques who wouldn't be great had they not broken the rules.

We can cite examples all day of innovative and exceptionally great musicians who have conformed to the standard rules, as well as those who've broken all the rules from day one.

 

[Lobster11]

It occurs to me that an important factor seems to often go overlooked in these debates about "whatever works" vs. "proper technique": the experience level of the player. If you've been playing for 20 years, pain-free and without injury, and you are capable of playing everything you want to be able to play, you're evidently not "doing it wrong" and it makes perfect sense to say "whatever works for you." But if you're a beginner with hopes of improving over time while avoiding pain and injury, then it makes much more sense to start out learning some tried-and-true techniques from the get-go. If a beginner just does whatever "feels natural," he or she has no way of knowing whether sometime down the road this technique will limit their ability to improve beyond a certain level, or will potentially lead to injury in the long run.