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Lessons learned from Bands in General
- Thread starter LAST_C
- Start date
I knew a guy who took one mid song. Casually put his guitar down, left the stage, did his business, then returned mid song like nothing happened.The mark of a true genius!
I appreciate your ambition. At age 73, I’ve done enough startup bands… and that was backed in the 1970s haven’t been in one since, and truth be told about a half a dozen or so reformulations of the same band I’m still in 50 years later.
Lesson 1 for me: great musicianship doesn’t necessarily mean a great bandmate.
I like the list of questions to consider when looking at a band to join; here are a couple of my personal requirements for band members.
1. No talking politics ever; not at rehearsal, not at hang time, and never to the audience.
2. Likewise for religion.
3, No husband and wife drama at rehearsals.
4. Just play the music.
5. Understand the goals for the band.
6. You don't sound better when you're drunk or high.
Thump on,
One_Dude
1. No talking politics ever; not at rehearsal, not at hang time, and never to the audience.
2. Likewise for religion.
3, No husband and wife drama at rehearsals.
4. Just play the music.
5. Understand the goals for the band.
6. You don't sound better when you're drunk or high.
Thump on,
One_Dude
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
It all depends on what you want. I'm in a band that does almost everything "wrong":
We play about 20% originals.
We play a somewhat eclectic song list, with few of the standards - everything from 1960s to 2010s.
We could gig every week if we wanted for decent $$$, but we don't want to. We gig about twice a month in front of appreciative audiences, and get together on the week's we don't gig to learn or write more songs we want to do.
We play about 20% originals.
We play a somewhat eclectic song list, with few of the standards - everything from 1960s to 2010s.
We could gig every week if we wanted for decent $$$, but we don't want to. We gig about twice a month in front of appreciative audiences, and get together on the week's we don't gig to learn or write more songs we want to do.
I had a number of experiences in auditions or belonging to groups that were more or less like the OP when I started out, say 10-15 years ago. Maybe most were not quite so dramatic, but still.
The thing is, I don't regret the time I spent with any of them, because it was a process of learning lessons, and it was also a process of developing myself as a person who could fit into the kind of band I would want to be a part of. When I first started playing, I don't think I would have been accepted into a band that would have been much better than these. I think of it as working my way up a ladder, or a food chain. When you've got no skills or experience, you're down among the bottom-feeders. As you go along, you connect with less and less bad, and eventually even more and more good, groups.
My wife used to tease me with a list of all the "bands" I had been in. There are, I don't know, sixteen or eighteen of them. But really for the last seven or eight years it's been two steady projects, with respectable levels of musicianship and clear shared vision about what the band is about.
My own lessons learned -
1) Communicate with everyone clearly and establish what everyone is in the band FOR. The group will fail if the members don't want compatible things. Doesn't have to all be the exact same thing, but it does have to be compatible. Make sure everyone is getting what they want. If you want to make people dance and the drummer wants to make money, great - you can make money by getting people to dance. If he wants to make money and you want to play obscure prog rock deep cuts... not so much.
2) No drama. Romantic hijinks, substance abuse, emotional rollercoasters, all need to be set aside when the band gets together to work, in rehearsal or on a gig.
3) Don't burn any bridges you don't have to. Build a network of people you've played with who would be happy to play with you again, and who would ask if you're available if they have a new project. That goes double for venue management. Even if a place closes down, there's likely to be bartenders or managers who will resurface at some other venue you want to book into.
Some people have described situations where someone books a gig and then puts a band together to play it. That's great - if you can do it. I would just point out that being ABLE to do that in the first place assumes that you've spent a lot of time climbing up that food chain. It means the venues know you and trust you to deliver if they book you, and it means you have a network of musicians you can tap into to play that you can count on to deliver, and who have a relationship with you that they can count on. Getting to that point is a good end goal, where you've become a beloved fixture of the local music scene. But it isn't reasonable advice to a beginner who's trying to figure out how to break into the scene in the first place.
The thing is, I don't regret the time I spent with any of them, because it was a process of learning lessons, and it was also a process of developing myself as a person who could fit into the kind of band I would want to be a part of. When I first started playing, I don't think I would have been accepted into a band that would have been much better than these. I think of it as working my way up a ladder, or a food chain. When you've got no skills or experience, you're down among the bottom-feeders. As you go along, you connect with less and less bad, and eventually even more and more good, groups.
My wife used to tease me with a list of all the "bands" I had been in. There are, I don't know, sixteen or eighteen of them. But really for the last seven or eight years it's been two steady projects, with respectable levels of musicianship and clear shared vision about what the band is about.
My own lessons learned -
1) Communicate with everyone clearly and establish what everyone is in the band FOR. The group will fail if the members don't want compatible things. Doesn't have to all be the exact same thing, but it does have to be compatible. Make sure everyone is getting what they want. If you want to make people dance and the drummer wants to make money, great - you can make money by getting people to dance. If he wants to make money and you want to play obscure prog rock deep cuts... not so much.
2) No drama. Romantic hijinks, substance abuse, emotional rollercoasters, all need to be set aside when the band gets together to work, in rehearsal or on a gig.
3) Don't burn any bridges you don't have to. Build a network of people you've played with who would be happy to play with you again, and who would ask if you're available if they have a new project. That goes double for venue management. Even if a place closes down, there's likely to be bartenders or managers who will resurface at some other venue you want to book into.
Some people have described situations where someone books a gig and then puts a band together to play it. That's great - if you can do it. I would just point out that being ABLE to do that in the first place assumes that you've spent a lot of time climbing up that food chain. It means the venues know you and trust you to deliver if they book you, and it means you have a network of musicians you can tap into to play that you can count on to deliver, and who have a relationship with you that they can count on. Getting to that point is a good end goal, where you've become a beloved fixture of the local music scene. But it isn't reasonable advice to a beginner who's trying to figure out how to break into the scene in the first place.
Not sure if this is the right thread but anyway.
Friend recently joined a band, called me straight away to sub on a few conflicting dates he already marked as unavailable.
Band not followed up on that sub work to me but are now 'demanding' mate drop his gigs or other things he was unavailable for.
The are not a busy band and have less than 1 gig a month booked. But still they want to be his main band he needs to cancel his other gigs for.
If one band gets to be the main priority, that works itself out naturally..you can't demand that on so few gigs for average money.
The other band just didn't understand prior commitment...not going to end well.
Friend recently joined a band, called me straight away to sub on a few conflicting dates he already marked as unavailable.
Band not followed up on that sub work to me but are now 'demanding' mate drop his gigs or other things he was unavailable for.
The are not a busy band and have less than 1 gig a month booked. But still they want to be his main band he needs to cancel his other gigs for.
If one band gets to be the main priority, that works itself out naturally..you can't demand that on so few gigs for average money.
The other band just didn't understand prior commitment...not going to end well.
Everyone is cool with “first come first serve” booking until it’s their gig that is affected.
I was playing in a band and the BL complained about having to book around me. I reminded them that I was upfront about booking when they asked me to join. I said, “I can’t not book gigs just in case you get one.”
A couple of months later they said it just wasn’t working, but we parted on good terms. I understood their position, but I wasn’t going to leave my other bands.
Both scenarios are messed up. In both, the band/BL agreed to terms before hand.
Even in my main band that works most Fri/Sat nights, BL not only respects first-come-first-serve, he encourages it, saying he doesn't want to step in the way of any of us working just because he's got a dark date.
As a past BL, I wanted my guys to keep gigging when not playing with me - it meant I was working with good players who kept their chops up and could keep their heads on a swivel.
Something I try to impress on bands is that learning to deal with sidemen can greatly improve their ability to play gigs, stay in business, and maintain their sanity. I think that playing a gig with sidemen and zero rehearsal counts as an "advanced" skill for most players outside of jazz, but playing a gig from charted material with one "dress" rehearsal is a realistic goal to strive for. Treating their regular players like sidemen is a step towards developing this ability.
What I've noticed is that most musicians don't understand the bass, possibly because we tend to take care of ourselves without a fuss. This leaves it as a mystery how we work and what we need. Also, it can't be all that hard, right? And the terms used to describe successful bass playing, such as "groove," don't reveal anything about what it actually involves.
For this reason I don't think it's an affront to tell bands up front what you need and expect as a bass player.
What I've noticed is that most musicians don't understand the bass, possibly because we tend to take care of ourselves without a fuss. This leaves it as a mystery how we work and what we need. Also, it can't be all that hard, right? And the terms used to describe successful bass playing, such as "groove," don't reveal anything about what it actually involves.
For this reason I don't think it's an affront to tell bands up front what you need and expect as a bass player.
The first time I ever saw someone use a wireless setup was ~1975.The mark of a true genius!
I went into a pub but stopped first at the restroom. The guitarist from the band was standing next to me taking a leak while playing
with the band in the other room.
I sort of did this one time. But I have context I hope will absolve me. I had finished a gig with one band and that bands drummer graciously ferried me and my gear a few blocks over to get loaded in for the next gig. Going from 1 hr show to a 4ish hour show. The 4 hour show was a going away party/show for our drummer at a place where we were on good terms with the venue folks. They knew what the show was and that the draw should mean good bar tabs from folks. The main guys wanted to do everything they'd ever gigged/written even from the early days hence the set time. Around the 3rd hour though I was dying.
I whispered it to my guitarist and keyboardist that we needed to play Moby Dick. I knew the soon to be ex drummer would be upset because even when we were doing our cover shows he hated doing it. Even though he was a massive Zeppelin fan and the crowds always went bonkers for it. They agreed, but I had to tell the drummer. So while they're chatting up the crowd I told our drummer. He says no. I said "look man, it's the last time. I'm very sorry. Here's our options, we do this or I'm gonna piss my pants on stage and I'm not doing that. We're going to start the song. What happens when it hits drum solo time is your decision". So we launch into the song, right when the drum solo comes off I sprinted for the restroom while our front-guys were mingling with the crowd watching the drummer. Made it back, he didn't do the long version, and we finished the set.
For OP, I had nearly identical experiences when I moved about 5 years ago. I wasn't as efficient though and stayed with a few of those groups. The thing was, I was an unknown in the scene and even though those weren't my "forever home" bands, I was able to finally meet enough people to keep moving on to bigger and better things. Now I have too many options. That said, they're never perfect. Now I have 2 bands
1 band where it's kinda experimental. The hang is great. The music is very fun and almost exactly what I want to be doing. We have a good understanding of managing the band. I do logistics and booking as well as co-writing to help keep our very excitable guitarist focused. The "spark" of the writing comes from the excitable guitarist but everyone gets to collaborate, though ultimately it's not a formless "democracy".
The other band is guys all 8 or so years younger than me and they don't have much experience at all. The vocalist especially is talented and practices a ton, but scene/industry wise is green and has a lot to learn. It's a chaotic democracy and we have been writing some real "camels" tbh. Camel being "a horse designed by a committee". Why am I still there? Well over the time I've been there they dropped the hackney cover set, started doing originals, and we have been able to do fun risk-free gigs locally. We gig more in that band and I have been having fun with it. They have some of the same naive excitement and "I don't care I just want to get out there" I think we all probably had at the beginning of doing the live music hooplah. I'm still in my early 30's so sticking here till something better comes along is about where I'm at.
I have the opposite problem with our keyboardist. He'll start to creep as the writing night goes on and eventually it comes to "Get off my turf man, You got octaves on octaves away from here". It's in good fun though
I just left a band I'd been in for almost a year over this. When I joined they had a comprehensible elevator pitch (90s-2000s post-punk covers) and a stated goal of playing live shows. Sounded fine.
The first red flag was the day of my audition; was 45 minutes into an hour-long drive (due to heavy rain), when the guitarist called to let me know that the drummer was 'stuck in his house due to the rain' and they were cancelling. Should have turned around and forgotten all about them then and there, but as I haven't been in a band in my hometown since 1980 and they seemed like decent guys with a plan I gave them a 2nd chance.
Oh, and somehow the '90s-2000s post punk' set list included Tom Petty and Bryan Adams...
They were pretty good players, and really good guys, and agreed that Petty and Adams didn't really fit what we were trying to do, so I joined up and spent the next 10 months watching us add 8 songs, bat around .500 as far as actually holding scheduled rehearsals, and constantly digress from our stated goal (Bluegrass Week! Grunge Week!). After a couple of months of this I let them know that I really liked them, and respected them as musicians, but felt that we'd benefit from restating our personal musical goals and organizing the band around what everyone wanted out of the time we spent on it. It was like pulling teeth. The singer never managed an answer, and the drummer's would change week-to-week. As there are only so many Sunday afternoons remaining in my one, wild, precious life I told them I'd have to put the project on hold until they could come up with a coherent plan and take steps to achieve it. Not too worried about that happening anytime soon.
Charts help with that too. And money.
I call it "layer cake voicing." This is where each instrument occupies a specific frequency band, so the players can all be in their own little worlds. It works in some genres.
Oof the disparate goals hits home. The band I'm in with the young guys is going through that. The band really struggled initially with a completely directionless incoherent cover set list till the cover insistent drummer just outright quit. Then it just left Mr 80's Thrash, Mr 90's Grunge, and myself. Trying to write has been a slow progression of trying to get these guys to expand their musical influences. Thrash guy used to just write riffy riff riff guitar parts which he's grown from. The grunge singer does his best Layne Staley and tries to sell us on grunge and doing Alice in Chains covers. Voice sounds good, I'm still not gonna do those covers lol. Just going to sort of ride it out till something better comes along, or they stop growing since we gig more than the other band and they're nice guys even though they're green.
