Let’s talk coffee

[kesslari]

He could but Mike is a man of reason and no small amount of mirth. I'm gonna guess it would take them saying they prefer Sanka over his personally roasted blends for him to reach for the hammer of "Whatsamatta U?"

 

[slobake]

Umm, yes. Don't use it.
Get a nice burr grinder and use whole bean. Grind the beans right before you need them.
Lot's of debate back and forth between if you can taste the difference between fresh ground and pre-ground coffee. For someone like yourself that is putting forth the effort to make good coffee and understands terms like crema and flavor, I think you will notice.
If you were just dumping grinds into a large drip coffee maker or personal k-cups, then I'd say you wouldn't notice.
I recommend a hand grinder, but Cuisinart makes one for about $40 that is nice. The Cuisinart DBM-8 Supreme Grind.
If a grinder is totally out of the question, most grocery stores have a grinder near where they sell the coffee beans. Choose your favorite coffee (I'd be buying Four Barrels if I lived in SF, great coffee that a local small joint up here uses too), then buy and grind enough for one week. Any local coffee roaster with a store front will also grind the beans fresh for you. Options for that may be limited at this time due to world conditions, but fresh coffee is still attainable.
As @pie_man_25 mentions, after a few days of being ground, the freshness and taste starts to fall off noticeably from when it was fresh ground.

-Mike

The Cuisinart didn't work out, the ground was not consistent enough. Looked and waited for a good grinder since then. Finally found the Mueller Ultra-Grind Conical Burr Grinder for less than $100. Works good and gets a nice consistent ground. Very adjustable. It is kind of plasticy, the plastic portafilter bracket doesn't work that well. Sometimes it is hard to get the grinder to start when I slide in the portafilter. Not a big deal, I can use the button on the grinder.
Had the grinder for over a week now, I will see how well it holds up.
Now that I have that out of the way I can concentrate on technique and coffee. I like dark roast but am learning that all the oil in dark roasts can clog up grinders and espresso machines. Also too much oil can prevent a nice crema from forming. Tried lighter roasts and so far haven't liked any, maybe it will be different now that I can control the grind. Mostly what I haven't liked about the lighter roasts is they are too acidy. Could be the way I have made the coffee.
Learned about how coffee is processed. Seems like a natural process where they leave the beans in the sun is the best option for espresso. Is that true?
Read that a double shot should be pulled for about 30 seconds. Does that mean a single shot should be pulled for 15 seconds?
Any input on the above and anything else is appreciated.

 

[pie_man_25]

The Cuisinart didn't work out, the ground was not consistent enough. Looked and waited for a good grinder since then. Finally found the Mueller Ultra-Grind Conical Burr Grinder for less than $100. Works good and gets a nice consistent ground. Very adjustable. It is kind of plasticy, the plastic portafilter bracket doesn't work that well. Sometimes it is hard to get the grinder to start when I slide in the portafilter. Not a big deal, I can use the button on the grinder.
Had the grinder for over a week now, I will see how well it holds up.
Now that I have that out of the way I can concentrate on technique and coffee. I like dark roast but am learning that all the oil in dark roasts can clog up grinders and espresso machines. Also too much oil can prevent a nice crema from forming. Tried lighter roasts and so far haven't liked any, maybe it will be different now that I can control the grind. Mostly what I haven't liked about the lighter roasts is they are too acidy. Could be the way I have made the coffee.
Learned about how coffee is processed. Seems like a natural process where they leave the beans in the sun is the best option for espresso. Is that true?
Read that a double shot should be pulled for about 30 seconds. Does that mean a single shot should be pulled for 15 seconds?
Any input on the above and anything else is appreciated.

I have a cheap hand grinder off Amazon. It's nothing special and not very consistent in grind unless you're grinding fine - then it's fairly consistent. I'd like to get a better one at some point, but seeing as it works I'll hold on to it.

I'm with you on the general preference of dark roast, but I've been getting into some medium roasts too. There's a PC (some generic brand) medium roast of coffee called "the great Canadian" that definitely punches above its dollar value and goes on sale often enough too, probably no good for you since you're way down there. Using a Moka pot it's not like I could tell you how to time out an espresso shot either, and I don't know too much about different coffee processes either. I like my setup cheap and simple to use, and I'm still at a point where I gave to dial my grinder to every different roast/coffee that I use, and further have to dial how I use the moka pot on the stove top to get it *just right* at that perfect point where you get all the coffee without excessive bitterness - and even then sometimes I have to figure out whether I liked it better with our without the bitterness.

I've been really cutting back on coffee consumption though and that's actually been pretty great for myself personally.

 

[mapleglo]

I've been using this Skerton coffee grinder for the past several months. Having fresh ground beans makes a big difference, and this hand grinder is doing a great job so far.

I had a couple of electric grinders in the past. They all broke within a year. This one, so far, seems to be of better quality.

 

[pisces_bass]

I have been on a cold brew coffee kick this summer. I make it in a French press. 1 part coarse ground beans, 2 parts cold water, and 24 hours in the refrigerator. I like how mellow, yet concentrated the coffee becomes this way.

 

[MJ5150]

The Cuisinart didn't work out, the ground was not consistent enough. Looked and waited for a good grinder since then. Finally found the Mueller Ultra-Grind Conical Burr Grinder for less than $100. Works good and gets a nice consistent ground. Very adjustable. It is kind of plasticy, the plastic portafilter bracket doesn't work that well. Sometimes it is hard to get the grinder to start when I slide in the portafilter. Not a big deal, I can use the button on the grinder.
Had the grinder for over a week now, I will see how well it holds up.
Now that I have that out of the way I can concentrate on technique and coffee. I like dark roast but am learning that all the oil in dark roasts can clog up grinders and espresso machines. Also too much oil can prevent a nice crema from forming. Tried lighter roasts and so far haven't liked any, maybe it will be different now that I can control the grind. Mostly what I haven't liked about the lighter roasts is they are too acidy. Could be the way I have made the coffee.
Learned about how coffee is processed. Seems like a natural process where they leave the beans in the sun is the best option for espresso. Is that true?
Read that a double shot should be pulled for about 30 seconds. Does that mean a single shot should be pulled for 15 seconds?
Any input on the above and anything else is appreciated.

The coffee making thing to me is like playing bass to you guys.
I played for years, so I get it that expensive bass gear can sound better and is often worth it.
We chose to spend more for the equipment we use to make coffee because it produces consistently better results.
Sure, a grinder for under $100 works. Just like an SX or Squier works as a bass. A $400 grinder is going to give you better ground coffee for brewing.
You seem like you care as you're on a quest for the right cup of coffee for you just like you might be on a quest for the right bass tone for your band/gig/home studio/etc.
Warning: I am about to geek out on coffee talk.
I'd take your quest in this direction....what is it you like about dark roasted coffee? Why do you prefer dark roasted coffee? What flavors, characteristics, aromas, etc?
Once you identify what it is you like, look for coffee from regions of the world that highlight those flavor profiles.
You mention some lighter roasted coffees being too acidic for you. Do you not like acidic coffee in general or just that particular one you had?
Many African coffees, Kenya especially, are naturally higher on the acidic level to begin with than other parts of the world. Sumatra for example, that coffee is naturally lower in acidity.
So take a Kenyan and then roast lightly. You are going to amplify that acidity. Hit it a little darker, and you can obscure it, but if you go too dark, you'll make it acidic again.
In my opinion, you need to first identify what region of the world produces the coffee you like best. Maybe it's more than one, and that's fine. but lets get some basics down.
From there, and this is where it helps to support a small roaster in your community, talk to your local roaster about different roasting levels. Most roasters do what is called 'sample roasting', just a pound or two here and there for cupping/tasting. Try and get in on that, or ask for a pound roasted one way or another.
Better yet, get a half pound of the same coffee roasted light and also roasted dark. Then you can go home and do a side by side comparison.
It's going to take a little time and effort, but it will be enjoyable along the way, and totally worth it. Why do I say that? In the end, you will know exactly what you like, where it's from, how to roast it (not you personally knowing how to roast it, but know what roast level to look for), and how to prepare it. That gives you the confidence to walk into any coffee shop or into any roaster and know exactly what to order off their menu and you'll know what you're going to get.
Once we get you there, we'll talk equipment.
Having you cough up big money for higher end equipment now is like a newbie bass player buying a boutique bass and amp with a comparable cab as his/her first rig. Nice equipment for sure, but not practical to begin.

-Mike

 

[slobake]

I like the flavor of dark roast. Used it for years when I drank coffee instead of espresso. Maybe it is time to change. Don't know about flavors and aromas not that sophisticated. I would prefer coffee with less caffeine and I believe dark roast has less. Is that true?

 

[MJ5150]

I like the flavor of dark roast. Used it for years when I drank coffee instead of espresso. Maybe it is time to change. Don't know about flavors and aromas not that sophisticated. I would prefer coffee with less caffeine and I believe dark roast has less. Is that true?

It's not so much that the bean has more or less caffeine, it's the volume of the bean.
But this is tricky because it all depends on how you measure your coffee.
Let's say you use three scoops of coffee beans. The lighter roasted beans are more dense so you get more volume. The darker toasted beans are less dense, so less volume.
In this case, the lighter roasted coffee will have more caffeine since there is more volume in the coffee beans.
If you weigh your coffee like I do, the caffeine content between light and dark roast is the same.
41 grams (which is how much I use when I make a pour over) of light or dark roasted coffee beans will have the same amount of caffeine.
It also helps to understand this by realizing that when you roast a coffee cherry, you are drying it out, or reducing volume. For example, if I put 16 ounces of green coffee beans in my roaster, I'll get 12 ounces of coffee beans when I am done roasting. Give or take a little bit depending on how dark I roast.
Put it another way, we've all heard the riddle 'what will fall faster, a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers?' Many of us may quickly answer the bricks. Then we realize the weight is the same, there is just way more feathers in a ton than bricks.
Does that help?

-Mike

 

[slobake]

It's not so much that the bean has more or less caffeine, it's the volume of the bean.
But this is tricky because it all depends on how you measure your coffee.
Let's say you use three scoops of coffee beans. The lighter roasted beans are more dense so you get more volume. The darker toasted beans are less dense, so less volume.
In this case, the lighter roasted coffee will have more caffeine since there is more volume in the coffee beans.
If you weigh your coffee like I do, the caffeine content between light and dark roast is the same.
41 grams (which is how much I use when I make a pour over) of light or dark roasted coffee beans will have the same amount of caffeine.
It also helps to understand this by realizing that when you roast a coffee cherry, you are drying it out, or reducing volume. For example, if I put 16 ounces of green coffee beans in my roaster, I'll get 12 ounces of coffee beans when I am done roasting. Give or take a little bit depending on how dark I roast.
Put it another way, we've all heard the riddle 'what will fall faster, a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers?' Many of us may quickly answer the bricks. Then we realize the weight is the same, there is just way more feathers in a ton than bricks.
Does that help?

-Mike

Yes, it does. thanks Mike

 

[Downunderwonder]

How did we all get on calibrating our ears to the ringing of a properly filled Bialetti tank?

 

[pie_man_25]

How did we all get on calibrating our ears to the ringing of a properly filled Bialetti tank?

I never calibrated my ears to it, I've always eyeballed it.

Also: as a bit of an update, I'm going through another distance-learning course, this allows me to spend some time up in Moncton at my girlfriend's place and making my own coffee (instead of drinking the stuff from the mess, which is serviceable but not much past that). Over the next couple of weeks I'm going to be probably working out a way to fine-tune my moka-pot method and documenting results, if anybody's interested.

 

[MJ5150]

I am usually very deliberate and particular when it comes to my coffee. However, one of the importers I work with for my green coffee was talking up a coffee he just got access to from China, the Yunnan Province to be specific where over 95% of Chinese coffee is grown. I have never in my life had coffee from China as a single origin. While China has been growing and exporting coffee for many years, they are still sort of considered a newcomer on the scene.
I figured might as well try something I don't have access to everyday, so I got 10 pounds and roasted up the first five yesterday.
I'm enjoying my first taste as a pour over right now, and oh my is this some good quality coffee. A nice mouthfeel is as we call it with depth of flavor, smooth and light but still a forward coffee flavor. I roasted a little dark just because I am not usually thrilled with light roasted coffee from that region of the world. Later on, I'll run it through the Bialetti and see how that looks and tastes.
It's a hit so far in our house.

-Mike

 

[pie_man_25]

I am usually very deliberate and particular when it comes to my coffee. However, one of the importers I work with for my green coffee was talking up a coffee he just got access to from China, the Yunnan Province to be specific where over 95% of Chinese coffee is grown. I have never in my life had coffee from China as a single origin. While China has been growing and exporting coffee for many years, they are still sort of considered a newcomer on the scene.
I figured might as well try something I don't have access to everyday, so I got 10 pounds and roasted up the first five yesterday.
I'm enjoying my first taste as a pour over right now, and oh my is this some good quality coffee. A nice mouthfeel is as we call it with depth of flavor, smooth and light but still a forward coffee flavor. I roasted a little dark just because I am not usually thrilled with light roasted coffee from that region of the world. Later on, I'll run it through the Bialetti and see how that looks and tastes.
It's a hit so far in our house.

-Mike

Yunnan is a strange place. They grow a lot of tea and tobacco there, there are some fairly mountainous parts as well, so I suppose it's a good place to get some coffee going being both close to the equator and pretty mountainous. Also, lots of schools there funded by the tobacco industry, so you see lots of signs saying "X town school of tobacco." The tea was pretty good.

Coffee is news to me, but it's great news that it's good stuff.

Also - I'll put up a thing tomorrow about how I intend for the project to go (there will be some intermissions between posts) and my overall method and mentality for testing stuff, currently I've got a mandatory morale thing to go to, and I was doing some reading, both for this project and for the course, this morning.

 

[slobake]

Been tryin different beans from my local cafe Martha&Brothers. Tried the Italian Roast, the Espresso blend and I have settled on the Cappuccino Blend. Makes a nice shot, good complex flavor, nice crema. Friends with Martha the owner. She grew up in El Salvador and some of the beans are grown by her family. Here is her description of the blend.

"A wonderful combination of light-roasted Sumatra and dark-roasted Indonesian and Central American beans that makes a rich morning brew or a strong, creamy espresso drink. Each bean type is roasted separately, then mixed together."

Cappuccino Blend — Martha & Bros Coffee Company

 

[pie_man_25]

So, a general description of what I intend to do:

Being on an online course for the next couple of weeks enables me to spend some time in Moncton with my girlfriend, and therefore able to cook for myself. I've got a cheap hand grinder from Amazon, about a half pound of melitta "bellacrema" dark roast beans (and just about two pounds of some Brazilian stuff), and a bialetti moka pot. My usual coffee routine has been cemented down, more or less, but it's been on autopilot for so long that I'm actually trying to wonder if there's either a) a better way to do it, or, b) figure out how the heck I came to my conclusions in the first place.

In other words, I just want to dial some stuff in, or figure out how I can dial things in from grind to grind.

So, I'm going to be brewing my usual cup of coffee/espresso (depending on how you feel about espresso, moka pots, and pedantry) and working out a few variables - one at a time - as follows based on a quick review of some literature (namely a method determined by James Hoffman, a youtube personality and apparently former competitive barista, which tbh I didn't really know was a thing, the online copy of the instructions found in my "moka express" that I've honestly lost to time, and lastly the article from wikipedia - links at the end of the post). The variables are going to be - hot water start v. cold water start; amount of coffee - between leveled off v. slightly more than level, measured volumetrically; size of grind - measured by eyeball to the approximations of "all-purpose flour," "sugar/table salt," and "kosher salt," with anything larger than that being ruled out; volume of water in the boiling pot - to include "just up to the valve," "Just below the valve," and, "roughly up to the middle of the valve"; lastly, the "gurgling point" - pouring cold water over the pot (a la james hoffman), v. just boiling through, v. trying to "time it out".

A brief-ish word on measurements: Given that my total investment into coffee equipment is roughly $50 CAD ($70 if you count my french press, but that was with crappy tire money so... yeah), the focus of this experiment isn't necessarily to buy a bunch of fancy tools (although eventually they would be cool), so much as to apply focus and attention to detail onto my techniques for using the tools that I have already. As such, I'm going to measure my selected variables as accurately as I can using the tools at hand to measure. TL;DR - I could buy the sharpest tools money can buy, but if I'm a dull tool my work won't be any better - ergot, sharpen skills first, tools second.

Lastly, as promised, links to source material from which I've derived some inspiration, if you want me to explain my reasoning for coming up with this stuff I can do so, but I kinda feel this post is long-winded and needlessly pedantic as-is.

James Hoffman vid:


Wikipedia article:
Moka pot - Wikipedia

Bialetti manual, instructions and tips found under "Care Use"
Bialetti : Moka Express

 

[MJ5150]

Good plan buddy.
If a person is spending lots of money on equipment to brew coffee, they have missed the point.
Some of the best coffee I ever had in my life was prepared for me by a man from Israel. He had a collection of equipment that he had built/welded himself or that were hand me downs from years ago in his family.
We met this gentleman, Tal, on our visit to Denver last December. He owns a coffee roasting business, a highly succesful one, and has the means to purchase the best of the best for brewing coffee. Still, he relied on the ancient and somewhat broken down equipment he had.
We have our expensive grinder because there was a time I wanted to compete in coffee competitions and own a coffee shop. I needed equipment to quickly produce the same results multiple times.
Those days are behind us now. My current coffee preparation routine involves nothing electric or electronic.

-Mike

 

[Downunderwonder]

My Bialetti pot recipe for richest smoothest low acidity yet still fruity with no nasty aftertaste, no sugar or milk needed:

50/50 dark roast and medium roasted beans, hand ground, 'rolled' out of the grinder vessel just enough to form a mound in the centre of the Bialetti basket with space at the sides such that moving a straight edge over it levels it off with negligible tamping.

Water level is critical. I find just skinning onto the valve bottom is just right, no more, no less, for the '4' cup but the '2' cup goes up to the middle of the valve.

If I get it all spot on the brew goes quickly, the coffee is not nearly as close to boiling, but very rich tasting.

Ymmv!

 

[MJ5150]

I love our Bialettti. It is very sensitive to tamping. Just a little either way can produce a terrible drink. It's the same with our old lever action la Pavoni.
Once you get it dialed in though, as you have @Downunderwonder, it's hard to find a better coffee drink.

-Mike

 

[pie_man_25]

I love our Bialettti. It is very sensitive to tamping. Just a little either way can produce a terrible drink. It's the same with our old lever action la Pavoni.
Once you get it dialed in though, as you have @Downunderwonder, it's hard to find a better coffee drink.

-Mike

I didn't really even know you COULD tamp them.

 

[MJ5150]

I didn't really even know you COULD tamp them.

Oh yeah you can.
Add that variable to your testing. Just make sure you know how to tamp in the first place and you do it with a correctly sized tamper. If you don't and you can't, skip it.
We have a couple tampers made by a fellow Canadian of yours, Reg Barber. In my opinion, they are easily the best you can buy. He is retired now. Any device that offers to tamp for you, run away from it.

-Mike