Let’s talk coffee

[BassNugget]

What's so strange about the ubiquity of Starbucks is that their coffee isn't even that good! It's fine but there are local joints in pretty much every city I've ever been that are at least a little better for the same price or less.

The "not good" does not come from the coffee, in my opinion, but from the fact that they do not wash their carafes or brewers properly at any stores in the US that I have been to. Starbucks in Japan is expensive and DELICIOUS. They are fastidious about cleanliness and doing things absolutely by the book. Clean equipment is essential to good coffee. Mr. Donut (Dunkin Donuts family) still exists in Japan as well. Decent coffee can be had there as well.

 

[pisces_bass]

What's so strange about the ubiquity of Starbucks is that their coffee isn't even that good! It's fine but there are local joints in pretty much every city I've ever been that are at least a little better for the same price or less.

I was living in Seattle 20 years ago when Starbucks was really getting big and corporate. It was the butt of many jokes because of the reason you mention. Every neighborhood had an independent shop making legit great coffee.

 

[BassNugget]

I worked for a competitor from Seattle for a bit....Cafe Appassionato. I also worked for Coffee Connection in Boston before they were bought by Starbucks. Both were better than SBUX at the time.

In Japan, I would go to Costco, get the Dark Roast beans from Kirkland. Back then, they were roasted by Starbucks. Grind and brew: it made a very good cup of coffee!!! So they are quite capable of doing a good roast...just the in-store delivery...meh.

 

[definenredefine]

I worked for a competitor from Seattle for a bit....Cafe Appassionato. I also worked for Coffee Connection in Boston before they were bought by Starbucks. Both were better than SBUX at the time.

In Japan, I would go to Costco, get the Dark Roast beans from Kirkland. Back then, they were roasted by Starbucks. Grind and brew: it made a very good cup of coffee!!! So they are quite capable of doing a good roast...just the in-store delivery...meh.

There's Costco in Japan???

 

[JACKSON JS1XM]

I'll grind the beans to near powder (Turkish grind). Pulverizing the beans I use less and it's strong. That goes in a Mr Coffee drip machine. For the quick cup, I have a K-cup machine. Espresso I have those metal stove top pressure things and even a Krups.

I haven't been to Starbucks in years. I go by Larry when I do go to Starbucks. Common 1st name, I learned early in that game that when caffeine withdrawals are happening, it's not a good thing to hear your name and show up & find 5 others at the counter with the same name. Then it's a matter of each of us looking at each other & trying to figure out who's order they called all of us over for. That and nobody should be on a real first name basis with their Barista. With Starbucks, there's not mine, or it's my order, you still have to be polite & ensure 1 of the 4 others didn't order the same thing I did. I don't handle social situations well when I am caffeine deficient. I don't even like myself in that state.

 

[pie_man_25]

What's so strange about the ubiquity of Starbucks is that their coffee isn't even that good! It's fine but there are local joints in pretty much every city I've ever been that are at least a little better for the same price or less.

IMO it comes down to three things:

1) Branding - Starbucks is a massive company and can spend a lot on making sure their logo and associated products and store experience "feel" good to an absurd degree - from their coffee to the mugs and paraphernalia you can buy to quite possibly the smell of the place and the gum under the table. Gotta target your marketing to the right people, too.

2) Consistency - sure, every decently sized city is going to have coffee that tastes better, but every small shop you walk into may either not be as good as the one back home, or similar quality but, "just not the same." Big companies like Starbucks place a massive premium on consistency even if the product is to s slightly lower average - if it is more consistent, that's more preferable than less consistent.

3) Most people don't drink a coffee product where you can tell the difference. Starbucks - as far as chain coffee goes in Canada - makes a decent cup of coffee, better than McDonald's or Tim's at least. But I'll be honest if somebody handed me a latte, let alone a flavoured one, from each place with a blindfold I'd be unable to tell them apart. That's just the tip of the iceberg, too, my gf regularly drinks their products and normally at this juncture gets a chai latte or some sort of fruity iced tea product. Kinda hard to argue coffee quality at that point. Milk and sugar will cover up the taste of coffee to the point where it's arguably a different beverage in extremes, but it's a different thing when you're not drinking a thing with coffee at all.

I was never particularly big on Starbucks - they're more expensive than the competition and have less and less convenient locations. If I'm traveling and need a cup, you can bet there's something cheaper, closer. But I've basically sworn off the stuff since hearing some of what's been said by their higher ups about some events stateside. They can afford to lose my dollar, but I'm still making that vote.

 

[BassNugget]

There's Costco in Japan???

Afirmative. I lived in Chiba prefecture at one point. They had a Costco. Looks like they now have 31 locations.

コストコホールセールジャパン | Costco Japan

 

[jnewmark]

IMO it comes down to three things:

1) Branding - Starbucks is a massive company and can spend a lot on making sure their logo and associated products and store experience "feel" good to an absurd degree - from their coffee to the mugs and paraphernalia you can buy to quite possibly the smell of the place and the gum under the table. Gotta target your marketing to the right people, too.

2) Consistency - sure, every decently sized city is going to have coffee that tastes better, but every small shop you walk into may either not be as good as the one back home, or similar quality but, "just not the same." Big companies like Starbucks place a massive premium on consistency even if the product is to s slightly lower average - if it is more consistent, that's more preferable than less consistent.

3) Most people don't drink a coffee product where you can tell the difference. Starbucks - as far as chain coffee goes in Canada - makes a decent cup of coffee, better than McDonald's or Tim's at least. But I'll be honest if somebody handed me a latte, let alone a flavoured one, from each place with a blindfold I'd be unable to tell them apart. That's just the tip of the iceberg, too, my gf regularly drinks their products and normally at this juncture gets a chai latte or some sort of fruity iced tea product. Kinda hard to argue coffee quality at that point. Milk and sugar will cover up the taste of coffee to the point where it's arguably a different beverage in extremes, but it's a different thing when you're not drinking a thing with coffee at all.

I was never particularly big on Starbucks - they're more expensive than the competition and have less and less convenient locations. If I'm traveling and need a cup, you can bet there's something cheaper, closer. But I've basically sworn off the stuff since hearing some of what's been said by their higher ups about some events stateside. They can afford to lose my dollar, but I'm still making that vote.

Funny thing about Starbucks, at least about their beans. You're right, they are consistent . I never go to Starbucks to drink a coffee, I buy their beans. After trying many different online coffee vendors' beans, and other brands, I keep coming back to them. I'm getting in to blending beans these days, and Starbucks Sumatra beans are always in the blend, after trying many other brand Sumatra beans. Personal taste, of course, but there ya have it.

 

[pie_man_25]

Funny thing about Starbucks, at least about their beans. You're right, they are consistent . I never go to Starbucks to drink a coffee, I buy their beans. After trying many different online coffee vendors' beans, and other brands, I keep coming back to them. I'm getting in to blending beans these days, and Starbucks Sumatra beans are always in the blend, after trying many other brand Sumatra beans. Personal taste, of course, but there ya have it.

Honestly, I remember their whole bean coffee actually being pretty good, I'm glad you've found something you can use so frequently.

 

[MJ5150]

I will be forever grateful to Starbucks for helping advance the coffee 'third wave'. Thanks to them, we have the coffee culture that exists today with all the small batch/micro roasters and unique methods for brewing and enjoying coffee. However, outside of visiting one of the roastery locations, as @pie_man_25 mentioned, it's a brand. For some folks, it's a status symbol to carry around that cup with the mermaid on it. In many Starbucks locations, being a Starbucks 'barista' involves pressing a few buttons and placing a cup under a dispenser.
That's not coffee to me and why I don't even step into a Starbucks. I will go without before I have an automated machine process a cup of coffee and a human hand it to me. No thanks.
Does it taste OK? Perhaps to some, but it has always had a burned flavor profile to me and over extracted.

-Mike

 

[BassNugget]

Before Starbucks in Japan, you paid $10-20 for a crappy cup of coffee and the "privilege" of sitting in the shop. This was still in effect in '98 when I went over. Starbucks turned this on it's ear! The crappy, expensive shops died out. The good, specialty shops flourished.

 

[Lobster11]

Does it taste OK? Perhaps to some, but it has always had a burned flavor profile to me and over extracted.

I'm glad to hear you say that: I have much less coffee knowledge and experience than you, but this has long been exactly my impression of Starbucks coffee.

 

[friskinator]

At this stage, Starbucks is basically a fast food chain with a wide selection of coffee drinks.

 

[MJ5150]

At this stage, Starbucks is basically a fast food chain with a wide selection of coffee drinks.

Yup.
When I go to a coffee shop, I want coffee. I don't want a ciabatta, grilled cheese sandwich, something on a stick, a breakfast burrito, oatmeal, yogurt, etc. But let's say for some odd reason I did, I sure don't want that item pulled from a plastic wrapper and microwaved first like they do at Starbucks. Oh heck no.
Maybe for once I'd like a bit of a snack with my coffee, then I'm down for a thin slice of banana bread, maybe lemon bread, or even a Kouign-Amann.

-Mike

 

[skwee]

We do a hand pour every morning.

 

[BassNugget]

We do a hand pour every morning. View attachment 4750502

I like that it has a carafe. Is it glass-lined?

 

[definenredefine]

2) Consistency - sure, every decently sized city is going to have coffee that tastes better, but every small shop you walk into may either not be as good as the one back home, or similar quality but, "just not the same." Big companies like Starbucks place a massive premium on consistency even if the product is to s slightly lower average - if it is more consistent, that's more preferable than less consistent.

I figured this was probably the biggest reason. I understand, especially when you're in a new place for a quick trip or what have you. However -

Does it taste OK? Perhaps to some, but it has always had a burned flavor profile to me and over extracted.

I'm glad to hear you say that: I have much less coffee knowledge and experience than you, but this has long been exactly my impression of Starbucks coffee.

This is my experience as well. I rarely get anything other than basic drip coffee, and I find theirs always tastes burnt. Worse, a lot of smaller/local shops seem to conflate "burnt" with "craft."

Afirmative. I lived in Chiba prefecture at one point. They had a Costco. Looks like they now have 31 locations.

コストコホールセールジャパン | Costco Japan

Huh. I would never have guessed.

 

[pisces_bass]

That Sidama does make a rad cold brew. We love it too.
If you can find a Guji, grab it. That one is great.
By far my favorite Ethiopian is a Limu. It's almost always wet processed, but the natural process is loads better and a few of them are big on the blueberry. There's a couple we've had that we call them 'blueberry bomb'. Brew that up as cold brew or a shot of espresso then add a spoon full of milk and it tastes like a blueberry pancake. Almond milk especially, but other milks are good too. I personally don't care for it as I do not like anything added to my coffee, but for those who like a little milk it's quite delightful.

-Mike

Ordered a couple pounds of Ethiopian Guji and a selection of Kenyan beans. Looks like cold brew season is going long this year (regardless of the weather)!

 

[pie_man_25]

I'm glad to hear you say that: I have much less coffee knowledge and experience than you, but this has long been exactly my impression of Starbucks coffee.

Honestly, the more I try other coffees, the more I notice the same thing.

And MJ knows his stuff.

 

[MJ5150]

Ordered a couple pounds of Ethiopian Guji and a selection of Kenyan beans. Looks like cold brew season is going long this year (regardless of the weather)!

Right on. Please let us know how you like each batch.
As for cold brewing season, I agree. It's been a great year so far for African coffees. Let's keep it going.
One thing I tried the other day, out of necessity since our fridge was full, was letting it brew at room temperature on the countertop. I went a little longer than normal, 15 hours, and it still came out quite good with a Limu.

Thank you @pie_man_25. I've learned a thing or two from you as well my friend.

-Mike