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lighter gauge strings deliver more fundamental

#101
jamro217 said:
The most unfortunate thing is that there doesn't seem to be any direct correlation between muddy tone and neck dive, yet with the EB-O you get boatloads of both! Oddly enough, some of the best music was recorded using them. Cream and Free come to mind.
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According to the all-knowing 'net, both Jack Bruce and Andy Fraser would *usually* select the rear pickup soloed on their respective Gibson EB-3s (not sure about the source being either ears, interviews or, possibly, onstage pics with the pickup selector visible).
 
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#102
HaphAsSard said:
According to the all-knowing 'net, both Jack Bruce and Andy Fraser would *usually* select the rear pickup soloed on their respective Gibson EB-3s (not sure about the source being either ears, interviews or, possibly, onstage pics with the pickup selector visible).
Click to expand...
I can see that. The rear pickup would give you a more burby, almost Jaco sound then they're going both going through Marshall amps so, yeah.

Maybe this thread you're thinking of?
Andy Fraser's sound
 
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#104
Yeah, I had access to a vintage EB-3 and I mainly used the back pickup and later I own the new long scale Epiphone EB-3 version and again could cop that sound with the back pickup.

That's the sound of the back pickup. You can get some with both as long as you don't use the front pickup with the choke that makes the front pickup muddy. The Epiphone version doesn't have the choke, hence only three settings.

 
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#106
jamro217 said:
The most unfortunate thing is that there doesn't seem to be any direct correlation between muddy tone and neck dive, yet with the EB-O you get boatloads of both! Oddly enough, some of the best music was recorded using them. Cream and Free come to mind.
Click to expand...

LOL! Well, my EB3 was a short scale bass and I didn't experience the joys of neck dive with it. I had a leather strap at the time with leather lacing on the edges with pop rivets. In order for the neck to dive the strap would have to about remove my shirt. Needless to say, I went through a lot of shirts until I got tired of replacing them and retired it. It's still in my house lurking somewhere just waiting for an opportunity to chew on more shirts.
 
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#107
DJ Bebop said:
Yeah, I had access to a vintage EB-3 and I mainly used the back pickup and later I own the new long scale Epiphone EB-3 version and again could cop that sound with the back pickup.

That's the sound of the back pickup. You can get some with both as long as you don't use the front pickup with the choke that makes the front pickup muddy. The Epiphone version doesn't have the choke, hence only three settings.

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Only one JB. I love this cut, one of his best live cuts. In the studio however, check out Shake My Thing off the first West Bruce and Lange LP. Less pyrotechnics, but really tasty!
 
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#108
Everything else being equal, lighter strings will produce more overtones in relation to the fundamental. Again, if everything else is equal, lighter strings have less tension. Less tension means more excursion. More excursion means more overtones.

How does Tension, or length, on a string effect overtones?

Many guitarists over the years have commented on how fat Tony Iommi's guitar tone is. Because of his prosthetic finger tips, he uses very light gauge strings tuned down a half step.

Please keep in mind that higher frequencies are easier to hear than lower frequencies are. So if a low B string didn't produce many overtones, it would be much more difficult to hear because the fundamental is low. The human ear "hears" the overtones and to an extent, it "fills in" the fundamental. Some bass builders will tell you this is why bolt on necks sound fatter.

You can test this yourself with a tuner by the way. Take a heavy string, tune it up to pitch and play your note. Now, take a lighter string and stretch it across the same scale length as the heavier string and tune IT up to the same pitch.

Watch how more quickly your tuner will "settle" with the heavier string. That is because it is "finding" the fundamental more quickly.
 
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#110
I don't use heavy strings for sound, I use them because I find them more comfortable to my fretting fingers and I can achieve low action that makes it even more so for playing.
I would wager a lot of money that 99% of us couldn't hear the difference on a recording or in a live situation.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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#111
shawshank72 said:
I don't use heavy strings for sound, I use them because I find them more comfortable to my fretting fingers and I can achieve low action that makes it even more so for playing.
I would wager a lot of money that 99% of us couldn't hear the difference on a recording or in a live situation.
Just my 2 cents.
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How much would you wager? I could tell the difference on guitar strings in the Rick Beatto video - 1 person in a hundred Is very likely to hear the difference.
 
#114
hasbeen said:
Everything else being equal, lighter strings will produce more overtones in relation to the fundamental. Again, if everything else is equal, lighter strings have less tension. Less tension means more excursion. More excursion means more overtones.

How does Tension, or length, on a string effect overtones?

Many guitarists over the years have commented on how fat Tony Iommi's guitar tone is. Because of his prosthetic finger tips, he uses very light gauge strings tuned down a half step.

Please keep in mind that higher frequencies are easier to hear than lower frequencies are. So if a low B string didn't produce many overtones, it would be much more difficult to hear because the fundamental is low. The human ear "hears" the overtones and to an extent, it "fills in" the fundamental. Some bass builders will tell you this is why bolt on necks sound fatter.

You can test this yourself with a tuner by the way. Take a heavy string, tune it up to pitch and play your note. Now, take a lighter string and stretch it across the same scale length as the heavier string and tune IT up to the same pitch.

Watch how more quickly your tuner will "settle" with the heavier string. That is because it is "finding" the fundamental more quickly.
Click to expand...

You and the OP will have to debate this....
 
#116
Anyone have a 5-string J (or otherwise straight pickup -equipped) bass they don't use? Up for an experiment?
-Find a source for cheap single rounds (e.g. [This invalid link has been removed], if you're in Europe). Get 5 of the most common gauges for a given open-string pitch, e.g. a 055, 060, 065, 070 and 075 and tune them all to D; or 075, 080, 085, 090 and 095 A; or 090, 095, 100, 105 and 110 E. Install all five on the bass, tune them to pitch. Never mind the nut slots, just let the string sit outside the slot where it's too big, use a capo on the 1st or 2nd fret and evaluate them at 1 or 2 half steps. Post findings.
 
#117
Loring said:
Just saying if you record it and normalize volume - people will hear the difference when played back. Live? In a band mix? - probably not...
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Only if they are given something to compare it to in a controlled setting.

Sweetwater just released a string comparison test. They included five different gauges of one string type. You can even download the protools session with four separate tracks per string set (three mics plus DI).
Do Guitar Strings Make a Difference? - Shootout with Sound Samples... | Sweetwater
 
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#118
Summarizing the thread as I see it (and for my purposes), continuing the post by myself and taking @hasbeen into account:

With lighter strings, if the pluck is adjusted lighter (most people probably do this automatically, right?), and with tone on the bass and/or treble on the amp adjusted to account for what @hasbeen said, then the harmonics on the lighter string will be less inharmonic (they will be closer to being in tune). < This is the part that's interesting to me, sorry.

Lastly, with a lighter pluck and with less iron above the polepiece and with the treble turned down, then it could be that the volume will need to be turned up, and that would bring the lows up with it.
 
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