Litmus Test...can you READ? (Need networking help)

[leesbrushes]

Hello.
Lee here...bassist for temple "fat cat".
I wish you luck in your search bro.
Here is temple fat cat sayin peace.

 

[pbass2]

Ehh it's Indie, which has become a super broad term, not exactly "rock"...little more lightweight and easy going.

Yeah but still, you need SOMETHING that makes you stand out. Maybe it's some Grandpa on drums! Just kidding. Kind of.
I work out here in LA in the biz in film, tv, music licensing, etc. in the epicenter of over-saturation, ageism, flavor-of-the-week, and man, you don't want to just "blend in"...
Open mind is all I'm sayin'---good luck!

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Am I the only one who thinks it's hilarious that the guy has a strict 35 and under policy when his music sounds like it should be playing on a Chapel Hill college station at 2am on a wednesday in 1986? Don't get me wrong, it's well done, but that's the vibe it has. And all the dudes that know that stuff like the back of their hand and love it and are proficient in it are 45+. Those are the guys he should be looking for because they've been playing this stuff for 30 years and HAVE all the cool old gear like old Rics and Gretsches, and Slingerlands, etc... because that's what they grew up with (or always wanted and could eventually afford).

I fully realize I am going to sound like those mid 90's grunge bands who CLAIM they were inspired by the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd but were REALLY just trying to copy Nirvana or Pearl Jam...but here goes...

I am unashamedly citing bands like The Smiths and Modest Mouse as who I come off sounding more like, but I was heavily inspired by The Byrds, The Beatles, and The Lovin' Spoonful as well. My guitar skills are nowhere near Roger McGuinn or any of the others mentioned prior, but I dig the tone and think it can have a big impact on how the song is taken in by the average listener. However the style I'm going for here is Indie music, which is a vast change from what I used to play. Here's a clip of the kind of stuff I used to record and play:



The Indie stuff started as a joke with my roommate who loves the stuff. It actually grew on me when I started listening to artists like Cut Off Your Hands, Modest Mouse, Foals, Mew, Maps and Atlases, etc. Not being insulting, but it sounds like you may not be familiar with the genre and what it has morphed into the past few years. I'm doing my own thing as far as writing goes, but I am far from groundbreaking or anything super unique by any stretch of the imagination.

It's like if you wanted to play lawrence welk tunes, BUT ONLY GUYS UNDER 50, OK? When it's like the 70+ crowd that would be into that and actually have the vocabulary to pull it off.

Also yeah, too many limitations in the ad. You have to allow people to imagine themselves in your group, and most people don't have imaginations that good. So you keep things open ended to get people in the door, and then you raise the standards as the level of commitment goes up. So for instance basically email with anybody (as long as they're not way off in left field), talk on the phone with people who seem like they might fit, audition people who seem promising, and invite the people who are what you're looking for to join. Each stage has an appropriate level of selection specificity. So if you bungle that in either direction, you're headed for disaster and/or disappointment one way or another.

Showing my age here...never listened to Lawrence Welk

Hand up, swearing on whatever is holiest to all of us bass players (Jamerson's Funk Machine, maybe?). I had a reply from a 22 year old guitarist today, turns out he's a jazz student at U of H and likes the music. He told me (paraphrased) that he actually liked that I was so detailed. He said it showed I was serious, had an actual plan, knew what I wanted to accomplish, and put the work in to figure out what it took to make it happen. I realize he is probably the unicorn in the desert here, but after we spoke on the phone for about an hour he was very excited and we are going to meet up this Friday night. Probably turning some people off with my detailedness, but I may have never had a jazz student reply if I hadn't been so detailed. Just food for thought.

 

[40Hz]

Gave your tracks a listen. Seems pretty straight forward. Shouldn't be hard to find a bass player at least.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Yeah but still, you need SOMETHING that makes you stand out. Maybe it's some Grandpa on drums! Just kidding. Kind of.
I work out here in LA in the biz in film, tv, music licensing, etc. in the epicenter of over-saturation, ageism, flavor-of-the-week, and man, you don't want to just "blend in"...
Open mind is all I'm sayin'---good luck!

True that, I have a few things I'd like to say but not sure if people would take them the wrong way? Would love for this to NOT end up a band full of white guys, would like to see it be more multicultural and preferably have some females too. That's nothing groundbreaking, but it would be pretty cool to not fit into the white college guy stereotype with the whole group

 

[KevInDaBassment]

So I'm guessing if Sklar showed up to play you'd show him the door?

Good luck.

Dang right I would, puts me out of a job!!

I plan on playing bass for this project

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Gave your tracks a listen. Seems pretty straight forward. Shouldn't be hard to find a bass player at least.

Nah, I use chord tones so that would take out about 90% of the bassists on Craigslist

It's not too hardcore, but I wanted to leave room for the lead guitar to bloom and force myself into the "less is more" territory with the bass. Not using insane distortion and keeping the bass supportive has been a real exercise in self control for me. I also like to hear those notes from my P-bass ring out when picked...I will gloat and little and say she sounds pretty good

 

[arbiterusa]

Would love for this to NOT end up a band full of white guys, would like to see it be more multicultural and preferably have some females too. That's nothing groundbreaking, but it would be pretty cool to not fit into the white college guy stereotype with the whole group

Look at it this way: entertainment is entertainment. What you're doing is no different (actually, it's a lot easier) than auditioning actors for stage or screen. Take that approach. And I think you're well within bounds to have an age range. It is important if you're serious.

 

[40Hz]

Nah, I use chord tones so that would take out about 90% of the bassists on Craigslist

You lost me. You use chord tones. What does that mean?

also:

Hand up, swearing on whatever is holiest to all of us bass players (Jamerson's Funk Machine, maybe?). I had a reply from a 22 year old guitarist today, turns out he's a jazz student at U of H and likes the music. He told me (paraphrased) that he actually liked that I was so detailed. He said it showed I was serious, had an actual plan, knew what I wanted to accomplish, and put the work in to figure out what it took to make it happen. I realize he is probably the unicorn in the desert here, but after we spoke on the phone for about an hour he was very excited and we are going to meet up this Friday night. Probably turning some people off with my detailedness, but I may have never had a jazz student reply if I hadn't been so detailed. Just food for thought.

Um...I've known and played with quite a few jazz students over the years. Most from Berklee up in Boston. One of my godsons is a Berklee alumnus who's currently doing studio work out in LA right now. You said "unicorn in the desert." Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never found jazz students to be unusually creative. Or that accomplished outside their chosen genre.

Suggestion: if you're finding Craigslist such a wasteland (no argument from me since I could never see much point in spending a lot of time cruising it myself), why not see if you can post some bulletin board ads around some music college campuses? They'll be back in session soon. You might have better luck finding people there if that's the type of personnel you're looking for. That'll also handle your age requirement pretty much by default too.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

You lost me. You use chord tones. What does that mean?

I may be using that term incorrectly, but I first heard it used by Carol Kaye to describe what she teaches first to students of hers. To my understanding, it's playing the fundamental notes that make up the chord (so for a C major, notes C-E-G) while a guitarist may or may not be playing that chord. This would be opposed to someone playing just the root of that chord the whole time. What I was saying is I run into a lot of bass players on Craigslist who just play roots and that's about it.

Um...I've known and played with quite a few jazz students over the years. Most from Berklee up in Boston. One of my godsons is a Berklee alumnus who's currently doing studio work out in LA right now. You said "unicorn in the desert." Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never found jazz students to be unusually creative.

Suggestion: if you're finding Craigslist such a wasteland (no argument from me since I could never see much point in spending a lot of time cruising it myself), why not see if you can post some bulletin board ads around some music college campuses? They'll be back in session soon. You might have better luck finding people there if that's the type of personnel you're looking for.

He's the "unicorn in the desert" because he is a guy who has some music education, yet found my detailed post to actually be reassuring and alluring to him, as opposed to the typical case of so much detail turning people off.

 

[Korladis]

Reading comprehension is a must.

 

[pcake]

you may think this is nitpicking, but i've noticed what ads i've placed on CL that worked and which ones didn't. this line break at the wrong spot (after side) is the sort of thing that got less / worse results, and it's an easy fix.

when i was still in the age group you're looking for, i would have avoided this ad as it basically sounds like you're looking for side men but aren't paying, and i found the descriptions of the tones you're looking for open to interpretation and a big turn off. since all tone descriptions are relative, if you don't hear from more people, perhaps you could remove the section with the bright crisp jangly tones and list a few guitarists and drummers or specific songs with sounds you like instead.

hopefully the right musicians will see your ad and you'll find the ones you seek.

 

[6Bass101]

I don't take it as you trying to insult me, I do appreciate any help. My point was just that, short of saying "OMG NOBODY OVER AGE 35 ALLOWED YOU OLD FARTZZ!!! ", I don't see how a balance of politeness and severity can't be gleaned from the way I put it. Anything strong and you start getting hate emails these days.

I did get a reply from someone that shows a lot of promise, but if it starts dragging again after a few days (this is day 2 of the ad) I will probably condense further. If I get guitar out of the way, I will definitely be more flexible. Snappy drums and someone who can carry a tune in decent range.

You could be that blunt and you would get guys responding with "I'm over 35, but..."
It's the nature of the beast. I've posted gear for sale and specifically said "no trades." Sure enough I always got several responses with "I know you said no trades, but would you consider...?"
They loose nothing by trying, so they will.
My advice - just delete the emails that don't meet the requirements in your ad. No need to reply, just delete. You don't owe them a response if they are emailing you despite not meeting the requirements of your ad.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

you may think this is nitpicking, but i've noticed what ads i've placed on CL that worked and which ones didn't. this line break at the wrong spot (after side) is the sort of thing that got less / worse results, and it's an easy fix.

Not following you on that, what part are you referring to exactly?

when i was still in the age group you're looking for, i would have avoided this ad as it basically sounds like you're looking for side men but aren't paying, and i found the descriptions of the tones you're looking for open to interpretation and a big turn off. since all tone descriptions are relative, if you don't hear from more people, perhaps you could remove the section with the bright crisp jangly tones and list a few guitarists and drummers or specific songs with sounds you like instead.

hopefully the right musicians will see your ad and you'll find the ones you seek.

Oh believe me, if you read through some of the earlier replies I was berated by posters for having too much detail on the guitar tone part. I am looking for something like a Strat or Tele into a Fender or Vox amp, citing that brought the claws out from people . However I thought that the sound clips were probably a good indicator of what I wanted to go for and did more than describing could. Would you say that "bright and jangly" at least apply to the clips I have in the ad?

I don't necessarily want to call all the shots, but I do feel I should be able to call some of them when it comes to who I look for in bandmates. I really feel like I should have thrown out some horror stories I have from not being more pointed with Craigslist.

One such was a bassist who didn't understand how to tune a 5-string bass (all he used). I told him I was playing in drop D and I said he was fine with the 5'er, he didn't need to tune down since he had more notes on tap than I did. He kept pressing that he needed to tune his bass down. I then took a literal 3 minutes to explain the fretboard to him which apparently didn't get through. I offered a drop-D tuned P-bass to him, he refused. I then explained if he wanted to I could tune his E string down to D, he then said he'd "figure it out". I plugged him into my chromatic tuner so he could tune up beforehand. It all started making sense when he divulged he didn't know what notes to tune each string to. He "stumbled" through the next 2 songs and we took a break after that. Just as well though, it was a few minutes and he began berating a certain political party that one of our bandmates belonged to. When that bandmate then spoke up and said he didn't find it mature to do such a thing, the man then took it personally, called us all "F-ing Texas A-hole racist mother-F'ers" (I don't even belong to the bandmate's political leanings) and stormed out. At least we know how to tune our instruments, ya know? That's one of the many stories that have made me as jaded as I am today lol.

 

[40Hz]

I may be using that term incorrectly, but I first heard it used by Carol Kaye to describe what she teaches first to students of hers. To my understanding, it's playing the fundamental notes that make up the chord (so for a C major, notes C-E-G) while a guitarist may or may not be playing that chord. This would be opposed to someone playing just the root of that chord the whole time. What I was saying is I run into a lot of bass players on Craigslist who just play roots and that's about it.

Ah. Knowing chord triads and intervals. Got it.

If the bulk of the bass players on CL are only capable of playing the root I'd hesitate to call them bass players at all. But that's me. Either way, if what you're saying is true, I knew there were good reasons for my avoiding Craigslist. Especially for recruitment purposes. And so should you.

Seriously. If that's the case you're definitely better off posting some notices around colleges that offer a music major.

He's the "unicorn in the desert" because he is a guy who has some music education, yet found my detailed post to actually be reassuring and alluring to him, as opposed to the typical case of so much detail turning people off.

Well, it's been said (I forget by whom, although it might have been Twain or Bierce) that there are few things that can increase a person's esteem in our own eyes so much as when we find him or her in complete agreement with us. If that makes him a unicorn in your eyes, I won't argue the point.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Well, it's been said (I forget by whom, although it might have been Twain or Bierce) that there are few things that can increase a person's esteem in our own eyes so much as when we find him or her in complete agreement with us. If that makes him a unicorn in your eyes, I won't argue the point.

Yeah that sounds about right

I'm just pleased as punch to find people that actually LIKE my stuff. My metal and grunge buddies crap on it for sure, but something incredibly profound was my dad actually saying he liked it. Guy's played guitar for 45 years and never once complimented or liked any of the music I wrote/made. It's been very reassuring to hear people not diss it on here, but idk if I would have been as apt to put it out there if I didn't hear my dad say he liked it first.

 

[40Hz]

Yeah that sounds about right

I'm just pleased as punch to find people that actually LIKE my stuff. My metal and grunge buddies crap on it for sure, but something incredibly profound was my dad actually saying he liked it. Guy's played guitar for 45 years and never once complimented or liked any of the music I wrote/made. It's been very reassuring to hear people not diss it on here, but idk if I would have been as apt to put it out there if I didn't hear my dad say he liked it first.

Every time somebody disses a band's sound, I silently remind myself about The Cars who were playing about the time one of my first all originals bands was also playing up in Boston.

First time I heard The Cars, the guitarist and singer in my band who were with me thought they sucked musically and had as much stage presence as a doorknob. I disagreed and predicted they were going to make it big. When they argued, I said they were going to make it because nobody else on the planet sounded or looked like them.

There's a lot to be said for following your own weird. At least if it doesn't fly you can still take pleasure in knowing you did it your way. That's a lot less crushing than trying to play somebody else's game and still failing. Because then you're not only a failure - you've failed yourself.

 

[bridgecables]

There was nothing inherently wrong with your initial ad, it's just going to get less hits because it is specific. Others have shown how to potentially broaden it and still achieve your goals, but ultimately only you know what you are looking for. If it must be this specific, then you must be patient. But as we joke about in the humor section all the time, all ads get a certain amount of replies from people who are not at all what you requested. Consider, too, that the types of people you are looking for may not necessarily browse craigslist musician classifieds frequently.

 

[hrodbert696]

I have nothing against CL, have used it a lot to look for projects, but then again it is what it is - where you go when you've got nowhere else to look. You've got an uphill struggle here, because you've got a lot of parameters for the kind of people you want and not a whole lot of incentive to offer. That gives you a choice between doing a specific ad like you've done and getting little to no response, and doing a broader, briefer ad and getting more responses to wade through from people who aren't right for it. Either way, it's going to take time to get such a group together (did you say at one point that you're frustrated with the lack of response after TWO DAYS of running the ad? Ha!).

I would go with a briefer ad and be patient sifting out responses. Part of what's working against you is that there's a lot of unnecessary verbiage. In the internet era, especially with the younger crowd you're aiming for, no - people DON'T read. They SCAN. If they can't figure out what they want to know from your ad in about three seconds they click on to the next thing. To the vast majority of them (your jazz student excepted), an ad that long comes across as wall-o-text and is a turn off, and probably implies "control freak," as some on TB have already said.

For instance, you use a line to specify that gender doesn't matter. Well, if gender doesn't matter, why even bring it up? Do you think a woman is reading through all that text hoping for a line giving her permission to contact you, or fearing that she's going to find a line specifying no girls? Cut it.

Likewise, why specify when rehearsals will be? Maybe you know that, right now, that's your best time to rehearse. But it's easy enough, when you have someone on the phone or even at an audition, to work out schedules and figure out a good rehearsal time. No need to clutter up the ad with that. You can consolidate down a lot of the rest - "must have good gear, transportation, no substance abuse issues." Boom - one line, not three paragraphs.

As for the sound you want in the various instruments - you have tracks, and influences. Just point to those. No need to belabor it in text. "Indie band, influenced by the Smiths and Modest Mouse" (or whoever), "see tracks for the kind of sound I'm aiming for." Done.

The main thing to me is incentive. If you're not getting paid, and being asked to partner up paying for rehearsal space and such, then the incentive for someone replying is getting to contribute your own ideas. The ad hints at that but is a bit guarded about it and doesn't emphasize it. I would stress it.

 

[Axstar]

I'm in an unusual position with my current band. The keyboard player is actually just shy of 40 (though he looks younger). The guitarist is 27, as am I, and the drummer is 21. The first band I've been in where the rehearsals are structured, dry and everything is packed up to leave five minutes before our time is up. The keyboard player does the admin side of things and runs a pretty tight ship! I also joined them because I know the guys through networking, rather than cold-calling an online advert. Maybe this helps?

Apologies to OP, but your advert gets my amygdala jumping around. An advert that is paragraphs long, and juxtaposes things such as " (I) am open to constructive changes keeping the same vibe" with a shopping list of requirements (why bring gender into it?) just looks like the work of a demanding, delusional and tyrannical hack musician. I know this because I've played with several, having answered adverts written out much like this. I've spoken to others who live in my area who have also answered similar adds and been sucked into the crazy for a while.

The gender stuff always makes me think some lonely misunderstood bedroom genius is looking for a girlfriend. End of.