Live bands vs. DJ's...

[smogg]

Here's a thought..it's called ETA. "Engage The Audience".

I have noticed that many DJ's go into the crowd and do their dance routines to get them engaged.

In the past, it was only necessary to play the music, but now, I believe the lead guitarist or singer needs to get into the audience to "engage them"...look at NBC Today to see what I mean.

This could help. IMHO...

Unless you and your band are young and good looking that can easily blow up in your face. I see it all the time. Aging out of shape rockers thinking they can impress ladies half their age buy roaming the dance floor. The visual is quite disturbing actually and it scares the dancers away.

 

[jaybones]

Don't know about the dance club scene, I'm aware it exists but that four on the floor beat with synthesized algorithms with delay loopers and phasers all building up and overloading on each other doesn't sound like music to me. Sounds like a dial up modem to me.

When I lived in Key West ('99-2000) there was a club called Wax that was techno (rave). People I worked with went there and most everyone there was drinking water since they needed to stay hydrated (rolling).

I drank and tipped, so the bartenders loved me.

But I would have much rather hung out at Rick's Durty Harry's where my brother worked, since the house band there (which I could sit in with from time to time) played good music of the time. Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains as well as some classics like Sabbath and AC/DC (singer did a great impersonation of both Ozzy and Bon Scott).

 

[smogg]

As if it didn't already have enough going against it, the plethora of musicians striving for mediocrity is slowly twisting the knife left by an already fickle crowd. Dad bands, strat with a hat blues bands and quasi trop rock bands, all performing half learned renditions of songs that have been done to death. When is the last time you went to see a local band, cover or original, that left you with your jaw hanging open and the desire to go home and practice? PA on a stick jammed in the corner by the ATM with a light show that gets left on auto and changes colors when somebody talks into a microphone or breaks a rack of pool balls. Very rarely do you see any serious showmanship or effort put forth by performers these days. It's got to be frustrating as an audience member to go out hoping to be entertained, only to see one of ten bands play the same set of 30 songs that the other nine bands are doing.

Many decent bands have to run sound from the stage and depend on automated lighting because there is no longer enough budget for a dedicated sound man let alone the additional light guy. And yes the guys who were the cool rocker dudes of the 80's & 90's are now the Dad bands as we near 2020. And yes too many lame players willing to devalue the product just so they can play at rock star.

It never ceases to amaze me how many poorly practiced and unprepared "musicians" believe they are killing it when they really just plain terrible. Getting drunk and claiming they "just want to have fun" seems to consistently be their answer. IMO you can't make quality music with out quality musicians and you can't be a quality musician if you don't have a professional mindset. Learn the songs correctly; play the songs correctly, stay sober, and keep the volume in check seems to be too demanding for most.

 

[Tom Bonzo]

I’ve had too many people in my band that don’t understand the business end.

Since 2008 the economy went down hard so the clubs, private events and weddings went into spending less money. This meant DJs, duos, karaoke, open mics and turning into sports venues that compete for your business.

If your in a band and you want to make decent money you gotta have your stuff totally together because of the competitive environment.

It’s not enough to be talented anymore. You gotta be an all around professional player and person. This means practiced, on time, great attitude, bring people to public gigs, team player, help move equipment other then your own, don’t complain about money, dress properly, book a few gigs, help the band build a following by talking to people during breaks and being a personable. Don’t be a pain in the but to the BL. Most of all be a good person to be around and just help.

The show needs a good sound mix, a polished show with transitions and vocal harmonies.

Running a band and booking gigs has now become 15 times harder because the gigs that were once there are gone.

Your never going to know as much about the business end unless you do it and practice. Just like the singer has no clue about playing bass or drums.

Venues that book bands have their pick of 100s of bands. Bandleaders have their pick of 100s of players.

I have now switched to using subs 100% and pay someone extra for help moving the PA.

I’ve had a good run with this but times are changing and live music has declined.

One last note - Someone just recently asked me how much I would charge to DJ a gig!

 

[smogg]

@Tom Bonzo said "One last note - Someone just recently asked me how much I would charge to DJ a gig!"
My answer is

 

[funkymonk13]

I think context matters a lot here.

Are we talking about a DJ creating rock/pop playlists and pressing play so there’s music in the bar, or are we talking about a DJ playing dance music and using a mixer to tell a story?


If we’re comparing traditional music genres against electronic music, where DJing is essentially the medium, then yea that’s definitely on the rise.
If this is the case, IMO it just comes down to the talent of the band or DJ.
I don’t think live music is going anywhere, and there will always be talented musicians keeping it alive.
But at the same time I think it’s better to see some guy on a mixer/ laptop/ sampler doing something new, then to hear a subpar live band rehash music you’ve heard a million times.

 

[Session1969]

As if it didn't already have enough going against it, the plethora of musicians striving for mediocrity is slowly twisting the knife left by an already fickle crowd. Dad bands, strat with a hat blues bands and quasi trop rock bands, all performing half learned renditions of songs that have been done to death. When is the last time you went to see a local band, cover or original, that left you with your jaw hanging open and the desire to go home and practice? PA on a stick jammed in the corner by the ATM with a light show that gets left on auto and changes colors when somebody talks into a microphone or breaks a rack of pool balls. Very rarely do you see any serious showmanship or effort put forth by performers these days. It's got to be frustrating as an audience member to go out hoping to be entertained, only to see one of ten bands play the same set of 30 songs that the other nine bands are doing.

Sadly , you're right about a lot of it. Not all , though.

 

[Jazz Ad]

I disagree. I think most people would rather see a live band, The fact is that fewer people are going out to dance and most bands suck.

A lot of bands suck because there is barely any money to be made by pro musicians, since people prefer to have a DJ. Volume is easier to control and dancers get exactly the song they know well.
In the bar circuit these days, a locally famous DJ alone gets paid more than an entire band and why wouldn't he be?
He draws more people in, keeps them entertained constantly and knows exactly what to do to fill the dancefloor.

Out of specialty niches like country, metal or classic rock bars the days of bar bands are counted. Most rock bands play 40 year old music so they gather a middle aged crowd.

People want a better sound and stage, a reals how. It's now the era of mini festivals and acoustic private concerts.

 

[Tom Bonzo]

@Tom Bonzo said "One last note - Someone just recently asked me how much I would charge to DJ a gig!"
My answer is
View attachment 2918279

What’s terrible is owe on my PA still so I need to consider the income.

 

[lancimouspitt]

 

[hrodbert696]

This topic comes up with pretty clockwork regularity.

I do think that live music has a magic that playing recordings doesn't. There's an element of human engagement that you need a live performer to create.

The decline of live music is something everyone has noticed. I don't think there's any one cause, but a combination of them. One is "Netflix and Chill" - which is to say, when deciding what to do on a Friday night, there are lots more entertainment options than there used to be, many of which don't require leaving the house.

One is, as has been commented, the rise of electronic music's popularity, that no live band can recreate. We may not care for it, but what we like doesn't matter. I remember, recently, some EDM pop hit coming on and my son saying, "I love this song, it has such a great beat." I listened, and said, "It's a regular four-on-the-floor." But people don't just listen to one kind of music; my son also likes James Brown and jazz.

One is that the bar business seems to have slimmer margins and higher risk of failure than was the case in its heyday. DUI and public smoking laws are a good thing, but they do mean that the venues don't rake in money hand over fist so much. That means less money for bands and venues disappearing.

One is that, as has been commented, a lot of bands suck. I'm frankly sympathetic on this, as I'm a relative newcomer to the scene. The main way a band gets tight and gets to the point they can put on a good show is through experience playing. But you only accumulate the experience to put on good shows by living through some bad ones.

Now, if you have a big thriving scene where downtown has lots of bars featuring lots of bands, or where a bar can afford to have a couple of different bands over the night, people can go hopping from one bar to the next, check out the different groups, stick around for the good ones and leave the bad ones after a song or two. The bad bands get experience and either get good or give up, and the good ones carry the scene. But if you have a reduced scene with fewer venues, more scattered, with less money to invest in music, you lose that. You go to a bar, the band sucks, and there isn't another bar with a better band across the street. Get burned like that a couple of times and soon you're posting on facebook that you'd rather "netflix and chill" than go out to a bar and a band. "Live music tonight" becomes the kiss of death to venues.

And, again just to sum up something that's already been posted, the slim money does make it harder to put on a splashy show. Lighting and PA have been mentioned. If the venues are only offering $300 in 2018 money for a gig, you can't afford five- and six-member bands, you can't afford a sound guy. You're running sound from the stage, and how sophisticated of a lighting system are you going to invest in before your first $300 gig? I've been dealing with that myself. I can't afford to go dropping $2000 on lights right off the bat, after having already gone into debt for PA. I've spent a couple hundred, which gets us something pretty minimal. No one is going to be impressed by our light show over the next year or so. Hopefully the band is still together and getting gigs after that and I'll be able to afford to upgrade, but that will have to wait and see.

 

[lbbc]

Here's a thought..it's called ETA. "Engage The Audience".

I have noticed that many DJ's go into the crowd and do their dance routines to get them engaged.

In the past, it was only necessary to play the music, but now, I believe the lead guitarist or singer needs to get into the audience to "engage them"...look at NBC Today to see what I mean.

This could help. IMHO...

I totally agree which is why I'm wireless. I go out and (sort of) dance while playing or sit at a table with people I don't know and talk to them while playing. It really makes a difference to "ETA"!!

 

[brianrost]

I am amazed! If everyone on TB shares these opinions, they should sell their basses and amps and buy /use smart phones.

I've been making music with computers and synthesizers at home for my own entertainment for 30 years. My background in electronics and engineering was what piqued my interest. I have even fooled around with smartphone apps too but they are pretty limited due to the tiny interface. While I find a lot of electronic music totally disposable (just like any other style of music) there is a lot of creative music happening in that space but it's never going to be a live performance style. My personal preference is the mix of electronic and non-electronic musicians working together, like trip-hop, fusion jazz and "post rock".

I have not sold my basses and amps because I can still make money playing bass and I can't with computer music.

 

[bholder]

As if it didn't already have enough going against it, the plethora of musicians striving for mediocrity is slowly twisting the knife left by an already fickle crowd. Dad bands, strat with a hat blues bands and quasi trop rock bands, all performing half learned renditions of songs that have been done to death. When is the last time you went to see a local band, cover or original, that left you with your jaw hanging open and the desire to go home and practice? PA on a stick jammed in the corner by the ATM with a light show that gets left on auto and changes colors when somebody talks into a microphone or breaks a rack of pool balls. Very rarely do you see any serious showmanship or effort put forth by performers these days. It's got to be frustrating as an audience member to go out hoping to be entertained, only to see one of ten bands play the same set of 30 songs that the other nine bands are doing.

On the other hand, if you play originals or even relatively obscure covers, you'll get criticized for not doing that same set of 30 songs.

 

[Geri O]

I am amazed! If everyone on TB shares these opinions, they should sell their basses and amps and buy /use smart phones.

Looks to me that the opinions are being only shared, not endorsed, supported, or claimed as the poster’s own opinion.

 

[bucephylus]

The greatest casualty of the 2008 economic collapse was our manufacturing infrastructure; which had been built up through three wars and a Cold War over 7 decades. Infrastructure isn’t just highways. It’s all those layers from mining to machine shops to factories that put food on the table and pay for health care and education for kids. A huge portion of that disappeared in the space of about 12 months following that collapse.

Live music is entertainment that exists in the context of what the society can afford. Sure, the live music venues took a hit following the 2008 collapse, and have never really recovered, mainly because the discretionary income isn’t there; but, also because we have tightened laws, such as alcohol blood limits for DUI. Here in Mormon dominated AZ, two beers can result in loss of license. And with negligible mass transit and large distances to be traveled, loss of license is a really big deal.

And, one thing that hasn’t changed is that running local night clubs has never been a hugely profitable venture. It requires significant support staff. Club owners/managers either do it as a labor of love or because they have little business sense, more often the latter.

Finally, popular music did go through a phase where it was the bling; a phase launched by the Beatles appearance on the Ed Sullivan show, fed by the hit machine in Motown, and the country’s desperation with the multidudes of body bags coming back from Vietnam. But those times have passed, and live music isn’t a thing any more.

That’s the back drop for the local scenes we are dealing with.

The problem isn’t the “Dad” bands. Though, since I can remember the “I don’t trust anyone over the age of 30” days, I understand the angst. The problem isn’t even bad bands. There are good bands and bad bands out there. Always have been. Always will be.

No, our current live music scene exists in a challenging moment. Here are my $0.019 observations.

You have to invest yourself in the live music scene mainly as a labor of love. Gigs don’t pay a living wage; so, you have to have an alternate means of support; and you have to have the support of your family. You have to be skilled. In popular music especially, you have to know the tunes. All of them. Bands come and go; and if you are a bass player, you need to be prepared for any genre. Vocals are an essential skill. Above all, you have to be kind to your fellow musicians, the support staff in the clubs, the club managers, and the patrons that do get to the club. If the club is relatively empty, you have to play the show like it is Carnegie Hall. There may be only 10 people in the club; fine, then your job is to get all 10 of them on the dance floor and keep them there having the time of their lives.

Discipline, Commitment, Persistence. And again, be Kind. Being Kind does not mean being nice. It means politely sticking to whatever needs to be happening to deliver what you are hired to accomplish. And, BTW, bands are teams, as strong as their weakest link. So, your either repair or replace; but, again, be kind about it.

And, finally, make sure you are having fun. That’s what the patrons are there for. Most don’t know whether you played that lick the right way or not, but they can instantly tell whether the band is having fun. Make 110% sure that good vibes are always flowing off the stage. You can sort out playing issues at rehearsal. The gig is not the place for that stuff.

Play on.

 

[IanIan]

I think context matters a lot here.

Are we talking about a DJ creating rock/pop playlists and pressing play so there’s music in the bar, or are we talking about a DJ playing dance music and using a mixer to tell a story?


If we’re comparing traditional music genres against electronic music, where DJing is essentially the medium, then yea that’s definitely on the rise.
If this is the case, IMO it just comes down to the talent of the band or DJ.
I don’t think live music is going anywhere, and there will always be talented musicians keeping it alive.
But at the same time I think it’s better to see some guy on a mixer/ laptop/ sampler doing something new, then to hear a subpar live band rehash music you’ve heard a million times.

I feel like most people here have never been to a techno/house/tech-house show. Those scenes are usually limited to larger cities, but they've been around for more than 30 years at this point. Computers and synthesizers mixed with live DJ-ing can be just as exciting to me as a good live band, as long as the performance is good! I'd go as far as say that I prefer a not-so-creative DJ to most live rock bands, because like you said most pop-bands feel lack innovation. But if the DJ is only playing songs that are the same pop chart-toppers I can somewhat understand the apathy.

 

[bluesblaster]

Seems it wasn't so long ago I could catch big name acts like Govt Mule, the Wailers, Todd Rundgren, Leon Russel and so on, for a very reasonable $10-$20 cover in a bar style setting, You never see that anymore, and on a rare occasion when one of these type acts do play a venue like that the ticket price is much much higher than it was just ten to twenty years ago, things change, not always for the better but that's where were at.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

70's - live bands. 80's DJ's - 90's to present - a mix. YMMV widely depending on where you are. If live music were really dead most of us wouldn't be here. Lots of clubs have a mix of DJ and live these days. IME living in 3 major metro areas in the past 25 years and traveling in US.

 

[hrodbert696]

Finally, popular music did go through a phase where it was the bling; a phase launched by the Beatles appearance on the Ed Sullivan show, fed by the hit machine in Motown, and the country’s desperation with the multidudes of body bags coming back from Vietnam. But those times have passed, and live music isn’t a thing any more.

Just wanted to pull that paragraph out, which I think is important; people tend to look back to the heyday as though it were the norm. It isn't. The days when a cover band could play five nights a week and earn a living wage doing it was the anomaly, not the standard. I was struck by a Chris Squire interview, talking about his influences growing up, and him commenting that there was just so much less music around, at all, in his childhood (the 50s, basically) compared to now (this in an interview from the 90s, I believe). The Beatles and the wave of garage bands that followed in the later 60s, through the 70s, were something very different from anything that existed before, and by the 90s or so had run their course.

I think there always will be demand for live music, places to play and people to play for. But all things pass, and it's a smaller market going forward than what it was in the past.