• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

'Live' bands with backing tracks

#201
I have had to make some sort of peace with this due to the fact that tracks are usually used in at least one of the worship songs played at my church each Sunday. Thankfully my worship leader is still a musician and uses them very much in moderation... the typical recipe is usually a washy keys track, some sort of rhythmic loop, maybe a bvox track mixed low... to go with our live band of drums, bass, acoustic guitar, electric, keys and two bvox + WL singing lead. We are not using the tracks to "help" or cover for bad players, simply as textural elements to avoid bringing a 10 person band on stage which our church has neither the personnel nor stage space to support.

Moderation and watchfulness are the key IMO. For example one Sunday we were doing a run-through and I stopped playing and still heard bass. Turns out the tracks had THREE bass tracks plus a synth bass and the worship leader had only turned off one. Muted all 4, problem solved. On another song I noticed 18 - EIGHTEEN - keyboard tracks available. Unfortunately people have gotten so conditioned to a busy, dense and overproduced sound even (or especially) in praise and worship settings. One Sunday recently we went trackless, just our live band, and even though we nailed it, after the service my wife said, "it sounded kind of empty today". :atoz:
 
Last edited:
#202
You can put me squarely in the, "if done tastefully" camp. Many have stated this already but there's a difference between lip-syncing or otherwise having a backing tack on what should be a live track and tastefully adding sound textures that can not be achieved by the available personnel.

Indulge the anecdote, but here's a great example I was recently surprised with. At an audition for a, too hip for the room, pop project where I was less than familiar with the actual audition material than I should have been, figuring the material was easy enough to wing it. My story was, I wanted to give her a chance to see what it would be like collaborating with me and teaching me the tunes. :roflmao: It somehow worked.

I love her show(woman)ship, she can really command the room. It's going to be one of those bands where I have to actively focus on not falling in love with the lead singer. :(

In a single set she'll go from a pretty standard live band sound like this...



Cool, np, I can play that. But then, she turned around and clicked her laptop and her studio filled with super low, over produced low frequency synth stuff. Uh, I almost stepped out for a smoke break but decided to just go for it. I pretty much doubled that simple line knowing I can't compete tonally, so I added stuff rhythmically and melodically.

She liked it enough to give me a call back anyway, so my thoughts are it can be done if you're tasteful about it.

 
#204
For my original material, I am seriously considering using tracks for the first time - serious meaning I've made the mono mixes - I don't especially like it, and I can carry a show with just guitar or piano. But for some of this material, a rhythm section is really needed, and what original artist can pay a rhythm section? I don't want to go down the road of recruiting musicians I can't pay, nor the dynamics of people working for free.

So the thought is to open and close with tracked rhythm/bass, all recorded by myself, and play the lead guitar and sing to that, and to do non-tracked guitar/vocal mid-set.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Capt.Obvious
#205
Backing tracks....I don't like the idea, or respect bands that do it. I'm well aware that I've probably paid to see professional groups that use them though. I doubt the non-musician public even cares.

There is nothing cheesier than seeing local cover bands do this. Like a traditional four piece rock band that all of the sudden has a full horn section blowing out the PA. I caught a single acoustic act (use the term acoustic loosely) that basically had full arrangements sans lead vocals playing behind him. Why not just host karaoke or guitar hero night instead? Better yet, just put the jukebox on. It's all the same to me.

Maybe I'm just turning into an old curmudgeon musician, but give me actual human beings making the racket with instruments and voices - worts and all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoochie Coochie Man, Turock, bassplayer8953 and 2 others
#206
It seems it would depend greatly on what genre of music you're playing. If I'm listening to a straight ahead jazz combo, there better not be any backing tracks. I want to hear the interplay between live musicians in that kind of scene. Pop acts these days can be a whole new ball game though. The audience expects to hear all these vocal effects and other ear candy that is simply not easily reproduced live. Good luck finding a keyboard player willing to juggle all those incredibly boring textural parts on stage. It would be like being in the pit orchestra, constantly having to remember all these different settings and sounds at the right time.

Song 1 in the set list has a tympani roll in the beginning, that's drum number 246, but at the end, I need to have strings up in the right hand, that's symphonic setting 24 and I'll need kick drum 808 in the left hand. Song 2, Chimes on the right hand, and maracas on the left hand., that would be settings... ARG! :banghead:

I suddenly feel bad for keyboard players and can forgive their happy left hand. :(
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sampy123
#207
No shortage of opinions here. I am one if those deplorable poseurs who
painstakingly created great sounding backing tracks on my Yamaha Motif ES as accompaniment for my live vocals, piano and harp and a live guitarist I play with. Would I prefer to be in a seven piece band with horns and live bass and drums? Absolutely - but if l am going to breakdown and move all my equipment, and then set it up again only to break it down and set it back up again when I get home, I'll split the the $200 in two rather than splitting it seven ways - so come on down off of your shaging high horse all of you close-minded *******. I'll put my musicianship up against yours any day if the week.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Farseer, Westsailor, Hahaha and 1 other person
#208
Previous band I was in, had been a 3-piece for 5 years before hiring me. I was their first bassist, so it had been drums, vocals and guitar up until then. The guitarist was an average rhythm player, who could finger pick pretty decently. I added a lot of melody and rhythm, but they had made due with that very Spartan approach up until then.

As long as people can sing along, they won't care all that much. Apparently ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sampy123
#209
QORC said:
I played with a band that used a midi sequencer on a lot of tunes to make up for the lack of keyboards or horns. I found it embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Same here. Admittedly it did add a fuller sound to the band but the down side is you are totally locked into the track.
No improvising or spur of the moment changes.
No extending a song if people are dancing or you get into a solid jam mid song.
I'm no longer with that band.
 
#210
Sampy123 said:
No shortage of opinions here. I am one if those deplorable poseurs who
painstakingly created great sounding backing tracks on my Yamaha Motif ES as accompaniment for my live vocals, piano and harp and a live guitarist I play with. Would I prefer to be in a seven piece band with horns and live bass and drums? Absolutely - but if l am going to breakdown and move all my equipment, and then set it up again only to break it down and set it back up again when I get home, I'll split the the $200 in two rather than splitting it seven ways - so come on down off of your shagging high horse all of you close-minded *******. I'll put my musicianship up against yours any day if the week.
Click to expand...

Say what you will dude, but i personally would likely hate your live performances as you describe them. Not my cup of tea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sampy123 and Turock
#211
Sampy123 said:
No shortage of opinions here. I am one if those deplorable poseurs who
painstakingly created great sounding backing tracks on my Yamaha Motif ES as accompaniment for my live vocals, piano and harp and a live guitarist I play with. Would I prefer to be in a seven piece band with horns and live bass and drums? Absolutely - but if l am going to breakdown and move all my equipment, and then set it up again only to break it down and set it back up again when I get home, I'll split the the $200 in two rather than splitting it seven ways - so come on down off of your shagging high horse all of you close-minded *******. I'll put my musicianship up against yours any day if the week.
Click to expand...
+1 on this. Except I admit we didn't program our tracks and I won't throw down against the pros on here. I'm merely a very competent bassist who gets a great sound and can nail what we do and can also add a few very good lead vocals and harmonies.

I have a two piece (bass + vocals and guitar + vocals) and it's hard enough to get money to pay for two guys and all our thousands of dollars in equipment. I'd love to have a full band if it could pay.

It is Waaaaay more work to get the tracks together and edit them using Cubase than to get a "band" together and wank out some tunes which is how I'd describe the last couple of bar bands I saw. Everything has to be bang on. There is no margin for error.

We don't pretend to be what we're not. My buddy is an excellent guitarist but not a lead player. He can and does do excellent flat picking but only where appropriate.

We even have bass in the backing tracks! That's right, let the onslaught of parade-pissers commence ;). Actually I have edited all of the bass tracks. They are "my" bass lines except we play covers and a lot of the time the original bass line is the best. Not the original midi track, but the original recording. It's a lot of work to learn it exactly and edit the tracks to match then edit for my preferences. It is a real challenge to have 60+ songs down note perfect with parts that change each verse, bridge etc. I mix the midi bass parts a lot lower and it just gives a very full sound. I also like how I can choose fretless sound, upright sound, whatever. Playing a fretless along to a track is a test of your intonation and musicianship. It's very noticeable if I make a mistake anywhere and maybe even more so as there is a conflicting bass note!

My guitarist is also an amazing drummer (even better than he plays guitar). He also uses a harmonizer for vocal harmonies. It takes a very good singer to make it track well. I'm nowhere near the singer he is with a much lower range so I can usually only add a low harmony.

So we use whatever SOUNDS GOOD and we put in the work to get it that way. Yes, Midi sounds a bit digital and synthetic but I think it's better than recorded tracks. We have a tight, punchy sound that people can DANCE to.

This Tuesday afternoon we're playing a seniors' dance at the legion for $150 CAD lol, and we brought all our gear there to audition for the lady who does the bookings. Only took that price to get in the door and get more gigs. The people will have fun and so will we and that's the important thing. The tradeoff is much less freedom for me and less interaction as I only have one band member to play off.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Westsailor
#212
Our 3-piece Joe Satriani tribute band use backing tracks. For example the German lady broadcaster and other sounds on the intro of Surfin' With The Alien and the what ever instrument(s) that's not the guitar in Lord's of Karma's beginning, the piano intro of Crystal Planet and the into rhythm guitar on Flyin' In A Blue Dream.
 
#215
craigie said:
We even have bass in the backing tracks! That's right, let the onslaught of parade-pissers commence ;).
Click to expand...
Last show I played at, I gave a pretty long-winded and not entirely sober explanation to a pianist who was in the audience about why I play guitar live instead of bass, because bass is too important to be left up to weak, imperfect humans to play, and guitar is not important so it can be sloppy. That was fun. I went into transhumanism and talked about the female virtual death metal vocalist I made and everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sampy123
#216
To be honest, I do not care about how the band or performer got to where he is, as long as the show is worth it.

If someone is pretending to play or sing, then I find that pretty pathetic, however, I don't think this is even in the same league as someone who uses prerecorded samples or even other instruments (again, as long as they are not pretending to play them).

I released a CD some years ago that had many instruments on it. Other than vocals and bass, the rest of the instruments were all played by the same person (a very talented musician). When we were doing the same stuff live, the choice was to either "hire" 8 or 10 musicians or use prerecorded instruments. Other than the price, when informing a venue that we would need transport and hotels for around 15 to 20 people (depending on how many "helpers" we had), it caused all kinds of problems. I am willing to not get paid so my fellow musicians can, but I am not going to pay to play.

Our solution was to have the other guy play Piano on the tracks that had piano as the main instrument, guitar on the tracks that had dominant guitar etc. Now and again we would get a "guest" to play on a few tracks.

To be honest, I really don't care what people on an musicians forum think, the only opinion that is important to me is what the audience thinks of the music, and of course, what I think. To me, the most pleasure I get when performing live is not the bouncing around by the people at the front, but rather the foot/finger tapping and/or dancing from the people at the back that didn't even come to see us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcake, Sampy123 and craigie
#217
We use the Ableton system at church for some layered synth. Elevation Church and Planet Shakers have 2-3 keyboards and will stack a couple more on top so we use it to add a little depth and fill. Other than that, all instruments are live so who you see and hear is what you get. We do have 1-2 keyboards each week, a drummer, bass and 1-2 guitars with normally 5 singers.
 
#220
Jay Corwin said:
Backing tracks....I don't like the idea, or respect bands that do it. I'm well aware that I've probably paid to see professional groups that use them though. I doubt the non-musician public even cares.

There is nothing cheesier than seeing local cover bands do this. Like a traditional four piece rock band that all of the sudden has a full horn section blowing out the PA. I caught a single acoustic act (use the term acoustic loosely) that basically had full arrangements sans lead vocals playing behind him. Why not just host karaoke or guitar hero night instead? Better yet, just put the jukebox on. It's all the same to me.

Maybe I'm just turning into an old curmudgeon musician, but give me actual human beings making the racket with instruments and voices - worts and all.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sevenyearsdown and Turock

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back