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'Live' bands with backing tracks

#161
Went to Rock on the Range in Columbus, Ohio last weekend. Sheer, idle curiosity prompted me to sit through Skillet's set. (FULL DISCLOSURE: I was already not a fan prior to this show.) For 75% of the set, the singer/"bassist" (and I use the term loosely) put down his bass so he could run around with his wireless mic and play Frontman. All the bass for the songs where he did this was coming from backing tracks while he put on his frontman act. I was just plain offended. If the guy wants to be a frontman, fine. Hire a bass player then. But don't give me this "sometimes I play bass and other times it's piped in from a recording" BS. That is just lame. You're basically SHOWING the crowd that your instrument is unnecessary while planting seeds of doubt as to whether or not you're actually playing when you are up there holding it.

And, of course, no one cared and their fans ate it up.
 
#162
Mark Nye said:
Went to Rock on the Range in Columbus, Ohio last weekend. Sheer, idle curiosity prompted me to sit through Skillet's set. (FULL DISCLOSURE: I was already not a fan prior to this show.) For 75% of the set, the singer/"bassist" (and I use the term loosely) put down his bass so he could run around with his wireless mic and play Frontman. All the bass for the songs where he did this was coming from backing tracks while he put on his frontman act. I was just plain offended. If the guy wants to be a frontman, fine. Hire a bass player then. But don't give me this "sometimes I play bass and other times it's piped in from a recording" BS. That is just lame. You're basically SHOWING the crowd that your instrument is unnecessary while planting seeds of doubt as to whether or not you're actually playing when you are up there holding it.

And, of course, no one cared and their fans ate it up.
Click to expand...
Who cares if it's fake; it's "enhanced".
 
#163
What we're defining here is the difference between musicians vs actors, but I think I would offend actors as they have a craft also.

Performing lip movements or finger movements to a recording is a performance, but it is not live music or musicianship. My 7 year old can easily do Guitar Hero.


Yes, I've done the track thing a few times, but its boring and unrewarding. I play to entertain not only the crowd, but myself. If pros have to use tracks, that's sad.

WWW isn't a sport BTW.
 
#164
It's a fact of music these days. Triggering samples, loopers, backing tracks, auto tune. Lots of technology in play, and easy-to-use technology at that. I'm noting this technology didn't necessarily exist in the "old days".

My personal experiences: Saw a local hip hop band use an ipod for backing tracks even though they had a live 4 price band on stage. I swear Filter used them for all the synth parts during a local Raleigh show a few years ago as there was no keyboards to be seen, at least by me. I have a broadcast pro friend that says a ton of backing vox is backing track for pro groups, even when there's live backing singers on stage. Local drummer I met recently said she was touring with an electro artist, most of it was backing track, she left after the backing percussion basically became more audibly prominent than her actual live playing.

I don't have a strong opinion other than I have no personal interest in a live project that heavily uses them.
 
#165
IPYF said:
I'm a huge fan of backing tracks for two reasons:

1. It forces your drummer to learn to play with a click track which is invaluable.
2. Usually because you use up more frequencies in the spectrum the gig will sound better overall, as long as the tracks are of a high quality.

People who say it's a cop-out are wrong and usually jealous that their band sounds worse than whoever they're criticizing
Click to expand...

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Seriously? If I hired a band to play and they weren't actually playing... I would crash tere set and demand my money back or refuse to pay them.

Period. I can hit play myself.
 
#167
When I want to watch tracked music, I go to Chuck E Cheese


I would rather not pay good money to see Maria C. lip sync.

Sit in the good seats sometime, where the stage sound hits instead of the sound system.


My kid's newest band uses tracks..... the drummer has heavy headphones on and totally destroys the drums all set... no dynamics & unaware of the band, but he's on track.

Watching the guitarists stand around waiting for cues... single mic for the lead singer, nobody at least faking the backing vocals.... they don't engage the crowd, even though their material and recordings are far superior than the previous band that engaged and participated.

We're moving back towards live monitors (vs IEMs) and dropping the few tracks we use. Horn sounds are for horn bands and you better learn your backing vocals or Chuck E will bring in another stuffed rat.
 
#168
Bottom line:

1. Using backing tracks, samples, or triggers can be done tastefully and even musically! It can also be a train wreck when it is done wrong.

2. Just because an artist chooses to use these tools does not mean that they are not musicians and can't play their instruments. There are a lot of very different reasons and circumstances to venture down that road... some bad but some very legitimate.

If you want to walk out on someone's set just because they use these tools then go right on ahead and walk out! Their obviously not your cup of tea.
(god knows I'd probably walk out on most of y'all's sets because it's boring and I'm hardly going to be impressed at how you nailed that walk up when you can't even make eye contact with the audience while doing it. Some of your live performances are the stimulating equivalent of staring at a wall and that's not my cup of tea)

There is a time and a place / artists that should do it and one's that probably shouldn't / ones that do it well and ones that haven't figured it out yet.
 
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#170
DagoMaino said:
2. Just because an artist chooses to use these tools does not mean that they are not musicians and can't play their instruments.
Click to expand...


True, but there is no need for that someone who uses these "tools" to be a musician, in fact, for that task, they are a DJ, a sound tech, or a programmer. An "artist" if they are talented.

Of course, programmers usually get paid more than musicians, but that's another post.
 
#174
Backing tracks, triggered samples, lip syncing. It's all Chuck E. Cheese to me.

Here's a video called "Top 10 Lip Sync Fails" which also includes some backing track fails.


#5 Due to Britney Spears' tour, Australia considers legislation to add a disclaimer to concerts and performers that use backing tracks and lip syncing. Go OZ!!!

If you are in a band that uses backing tracks, would you be willing to make this disclaimer to the audience prior to beginning your set? Why or why not?
 
#175
I think we've ended up talking about a few different things here.

FWIW, Rush has stated publicly for years that, although they use loops and samples on stage, everything you hear is triggered in real time by a member of the band. In other words, even if the sample is a keyboard riff that runs for sixteen bars, it's still "played" (via footswitch, drum pad, pedal, key...whatever) like any other note during a performance.

If anything, it's tougher, because Neil isn't playing to a click track. If the band's tempo drifts 10 bpm fast or slow, they'll be waaayy off when that loop or sample comes in. :eek:

The only exception to this that I can think of off the top of my head is "Red Sector A," where the whole song is played over a very obviously sequenced synth part, and Neil is wearing headphones to stay in sync.

Of course, I'm open to the possibility that they could've been lying to us about this for decades, but I would be surprised if that were the case...

Back to our original topic, though, I'm OK with bands at the club or party level using sequenced parts to fill in gaps that they can't practically or financially afford to fill with real people. It's not ideal, but sometimes you just gotta suck it up and go. And, yes, I'm a drummer, too, so I'm usually the first one to go! :help:

However, I have a HUGE problem with anybody singing or miming along with a prerecorded track, even as a crutch or "backup." If there's someone playing an instrument on stage, the audience should be hearing that instrument live. Anything else if fake BS. Same goes for vocals.

Any major label act that has to pad itself with tracks should be shamed off the stage. Go OZ! Where can I donate?
 
#178
bassbully said:
Believe it or not is happens and goes on national stages all the time, today more than ever. Your on a long tour, tired ,getting older in some bands caes and the tracks get them thru allot of nights.
I know two guys who did pro sound who told me of many national bands who use them. All the teeny boppers and diva's use them today more than ever. Technology to day makes it very easy to use tracks, efects, pitch correction whatever.

On a local level I dont see why they are used but like I said before only musicians care, the public could care less.
Click to expand...

True dat. They don't deny it.
 
#179
Charley Umbria said:
I think we've ended up talking about a few different things here.

FWIW, Rush has stated publicly for years that, although they use loops and samples on stage, everything you hear is triggered in real time by a member of the band. In other words, even if the sample is a keyboard riff that runs for sixteen bars, it's still "played" (via footswitch, drum pad, pedal, key...whatever) like any other note during a performance.

If anything, it's tougher, because Neil isn't playing to a click track. If the band's tempo drifts 10 bpm fast or slow, they'll be waaayy off when that loop or sample comes in. :eek:

The only exception to this that I can think of off the top of my head is "Red Sector A," where the whole song is played over a very obviously sequenced synth part, and Neil is wearing headphones to stay in sync.

Of course, I'm open to the possibility that they could've been lying to us about this for decades, but I would be surprised if that were the case...

Back to our original topic, though, I'm OK with bands at the club or party level using sequenced parts to fill in gaps that they can't practically or financially afford to fill with real people. It's not ideal, but sometimes you just gotta suck it up and go. And, yes, I'm a drummer, too, so I'm usually the first one to go! :help:

However, I have a HUGE problem with anybody singing or miming along with a prerecorded track, even as a crutch or "backup." If there's someone playing an instrument on stage, the audience should be hearing that instrument live. Anything else if fake BS. Same goes for vocals.

Any major label act that has to pad itself with tracks should be shamed off the stage. Go OZ! Where can I donate?
Click to expand...

I'll agree with this one! Whole heartedly.
I've used sequenced parts that I've done myself, triggered em myself, made mistakes in myself- can add to the fun.
If I'm paying good $$ to see a "big" act & they're using trax to "pad" out the sound, or auto-tune...:thumbdown: eeerk!
I'd much rather hear live music & live mistakes/flat notes etc.. That's part of the charm.
 
#180
Charley Umbria said:
If anything, it's tougher, because Neil isn't playing to a click track. If the band's tempo drifts 10 bpm fast or slow, they'll be waaayy off when that loop or sample comes in. :eek:
Click to expand...

UNLESS..........the software watches the band's tempo and adjusts the track tempos to match.........not difficult to do.
Not to take anything away from them. They are AMAZING musicians.
 

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