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Live Kit vs. Electric Kit

#21
I played in a hip hop band where the drummer had a hybrid kit. an acoustic kick, snare and tom, and a few cymbals. a few pads were interspersed among the acoustic drums, and he had an electronic kick pedal next to his "real" one. We had the e-drums running through Battery on my laptop, via a firewire interface with an old-school midi plug. We ran the stereo outs form the interface into the PA, so we could balance it in our monitors and in the house. We programmed the patches in Battery for each song to be a mix of clearly hip-hop drum tones that you just can't get with an acoustic kit and samples / sound effects. It was THE coolest when we played at places with a good PA / subwoofers. No problem balancing the acoustic and electric sounds in the monitors.

i also played in a metal band where the drums were all electronic (triggering a good patch in Battery, but these days I'd use Addictive Drums). guitar and bass used amp sims. everyone wore headphones. we played crushingly brutal metal and no one needed earplugs, it was pretty fantastic.

but electronic drums can be tricky to get right. if you are using a badly programmed sound bank, you may get a variation in the volume of the sound depending on how hard the drummer hits the pad, but you literally get the same sample triggered no matter how hard you hit the pad. That is not how real drums sound. Good electronic drum patches have like 3 or 4 different samples per pad and the velocity of the midi note (how hard the drummer hits) determines which sample gets triggered. so the tricky part is adjusting the sensitivity on the drum pad itself based on how hard the drummer plays, to get the midi velocity to vary with the drummers dynamics. if the pad is too sensitive you end up with midi velocity 127 (max) every time and it sounds totally fake.
 
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#23
And I said:
but electronic drums can be tricky to get right. if you are using a badly programmed sound bank, you may get a variation in the volume of the sound depending on how hard the drummer hits the pad, but you literally get the same sample triggered no matter how hard you hit the pad. That is not how real drums sound. Good electronic drum patches have like 3 or 4 different samples per pad and the velocity of the midi note (how hard the drummer hits) determines which sample gets triggered. so the tricky part is adjusting the sensitivity on the drum pad itself based on how hard the drummer plays, to get the midi velocity to vary with the drummers dynamics. if the pad is too sensitive you end up with midi velocity 127 (max) every time and it sounds totally fake.
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A cheap or poor quality e-kit is always going to be a detriment to your sound. Ideally you want to be able to program sensitivity to suit how heavy-handed you are, and have high-quality samples.

As you mentioned, one of the advantages of an e-kit is having access to non-traditional sounds. My band performs "When Doves Cry" and we've played it with two different drummers. The sub had a traditional, acoustic kit. He did a great job, but it just isn't the same song on acoustic drums. Our regular drummer dials up an electronic kit that sounds close to what's on the record, and it makes a big difference.
 
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#24
JKos said:
A good e-kit is a pleasure to play with. Full volume control.....You must figure out your in-ear mix issues.
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CyberSnyder said:
You have monitoring issues, not electric kit issues.
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a good drummer will play either type of drum competently enough for the bass player to strut. if you know your stuff, and if the drummer can play = it's your problem to solve! good luck! :thumbsup:
 
#25
I'll never forget, in my original band in the 80's, our drummer decided to go all Simmons kit. Let's just say, trying to get that to work in bars with often just some wedges for monitors was no fun.
It's pretty amazing how good electronic drums are now though. I bought my son one of the cheaper new Simmons kits for Xmas, and man, it's not bad at all. I'll use it in my studio as a midi trigger for sure for Superior Drummer. A real drummer would find it lacking, but it's not too shabby at all, really.
 
#27
Odinbass said:
I've yet to meet a drummer who actually likes electric kits.

However I will forever advocate for them. Drums with controllable volume and infinite tonal possibilities. Sign me up.
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Haha. Funny you should say this. We had a rehearsal session yesterday with a songwriter we are going to record with. She asked my drummer about the electronic kit and the first thing out of his mouth was "I go through phases where I just hate them, but the advantages are many." Then he hit a cymbal on the acoustic kit we have set up, which was as loud as you'd expect it to be, and said, "it's better for you if you don't have to try to sing over that."
 
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#29
ThinCrappyTone said:
I prefer an acoustic drummer, if everything is near perfect. Meaning a perfectly tuned kit, mic'd up professionally, in a room with great acoustics.

But since that is usually not the case, at least in my world, I'd prefer the e kit drummer in most situations.
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This is it for me. I've never heard a set ruined by an electronic kit, but I've definitely heard sets ruined because the (otherwise competent) drummer couldn't or wouldn't play softly enough.
 
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#30
PlatoFunFactory said:
This is it for me. I've never heard a set ruined by an electronic kit, but I've definitely heard sets ruined because the (otherwise competent) drummer couldn't or wouldn't play softly enough.
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Yep. And I've also heard bands where the drummer was playing softly to a point where it was inappropriate to the material. Keeps stage volume down but loses the overall energy. This happened with a band I used to really like around here. Original drummer was energetic, replaced by a drummer with a very light touch. The replacement drummer plays very well, but the energy is just gone.
 
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#32
MK316 said:
am I being ridiculous by wanting an acoustic kit? I just feel like the electric kit really lacks the touch, subtleties, and feel an acoustic kit provides.
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No, you're not being ridiculous. However do keep in mind that a good electronic kit can be a great tool depending on the venues you are playing. Solve your monitoring issues and then re-assess if you can. I greatly prefer a WELL-TUNED acoustic kit over an electronic kit whenever possible, but I've also worked with a kit that was converted via triggers and a cheap-ish electronic kit. If the sound of the group isn't being hampered then I'd be happy with whatever the drummer felt comfortable with. I've played small clubs that a triggered kit was amazing in because we could get a great mix without having to push the volume up to the level of acoustic drums.

As others have pointed out, I think if you solve your monitoring situation you probably won't care much about the drum kit, other than if you don't like the visual (which I HATE on the smaller electronic kits...haha).
 
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#33
We have used E drums for over ten years. Lats time I hired a drummer I advertised that being willing to play the electronic drums was a requirement. No way Im going back to live drums. No they aren't the same, but the pro's far outweigh the cons IMO. Number one is volume control. If you are playing places large enough that your drummer can beat the hell out of his kit and you still need to mic it, this isn't an issue. At most of the places we play volume is definitely an issue. We get compliments all the time on how good we sound, at that it isn't breaking eardrums. I have played with guys using the higher end Roland kits, and my current guy uses Alesis. The Rolands are better. One thing I've noticed is the clacking sound of the cymbals is louder on the Alesis kit. Still doesn't matter out front but it is more noticeable on stage if you take your iem out
 
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#34
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#38
I wish all drummers I've been in bands with would use electric drums, but most drummers I've dealt with say they just don't like the electric ones. Rare indeed is the drummer whose volume is the same at the end of the set as it was at the beginning... Drummers are usually the #1 reason the band gets too loud and too much volume is death. Yes, there are cases where only acoustic drums will do, such as Jazz and similar genres, but rarely do people walk out of Jazz shows because the band is too loud.
 
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#39
Sorry to all, and thank you for all the responses. I got busy and this post got moved to the back of my mind. I appreciate all of the responses and input.
Seems like my problem is definitely more of a "me" problem after all...which is good since it might be easier to fix.

Regarding our sound.
Soundboard: Behringer XR18
IEMS running from Behringer Pro MIC2200
My IEM receiver is "an off brand Behringer Pm1"
The IEM headphones I've been using are the
CCA C10's
All that goes into 2 Peavey PV215D's at the FOH.
I understand what these pieces of equipment do, however, nothing but the headphones are mine. I know nothing of the quality or performance of that board or otherwise. Suggestions for fixing the IEM issue I've got?
 
#40
MK316 said:
Recently joined my first band (small cover band). We ply 70's-80's rock/new wave (Billy Squier, Tom Petty, ELO, etc). We play bars, small venues, parties, etc. One thing that I can't get my head round is that our drummer uses an electric kit. I only in the last few years started playing bass, but I played saxophone in jazz bands, etc up until college....Point being that I've played with a live acoustic kit MANY times. I've played probably 10 or so gigs now with this band, maybe more, and I can confidently say I hate the electric kit....and that it isn't at all the same as an acoustic kit. Now, part of the reason for this might be that our group is in the midst of transitioning away from floor monitors, and towards IEM's. To which, everyone except for me seems to have done successfully. We have the system, but for whatever reason the headphones I'm using (CCA C10's) sound terrible. EVERYTHING coming through them sounds like the gain is cranked to 11..boomy, fuzzy and distorted at any volume levels...but I digress as my concern for the time being isn't the IEM situation. Even with floor monitors, I hated the electric kit. Now I just hear the clack of the sticks against the electric heads and use the sound bouncing off the walls from the house sound as my monitors... Those of you who have played with a drummer using an electric kit live, what did/do you think? Was it the same as an acoustic kit for you? Interestingly enough, our guitar player has an acoustic kit new in the box in his basement we could use, but we don't... am I being ridiculous by wanting an acoustic kit? I just feel like the electric kit really lacks the touch, subtleties, and feel an acoustic kit provides.
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You don't need to "digress" from the real issue, which is still your earbuds. Get some that seal and sound good. Then MIX your monitors. Done.
 

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