• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Live Sound 101 - how would you start?

#21
bassliner50 said:
Vocals must be clear and crisp. Consonants clearly heard. Get someone with good adjusting the PA. Rein in everyone's exuberance, the instruments contribution is to provide a platform for the vocals. Do this, and most other aspects will almost fall into place.
Click to expand...

Played a multi-band bill last night in a great venue with up-to-date and powerful house PA, lights, stage etc. The sound was a disaster. Why? The "soundman" didn't know what he was doing. Should have been better, but wasn't - we were missing the "someone good at the PA" part of the recipe!!
 
#22
I agree with the mic statements. At a minimum get the sm57/sm58 mics. They are industry standards and if you can't make these sound good then you've got a problem. I would suggest buy the mics new from a reputable dealer. For $100 you'll get basically a lifetime use out of them. Don't ever buy mics used! In the past, I've bought mics thinking they're the real deal. I later found out that previous owners either crapped on the mics or they sold me Chinese copies. The mics were dead after a couple of use.
 
#23
walterw said:
absolutely not!

you have all you need with the XR18 and powered speakers. it's got way more than enough tricky processing.

a real sub will always make the difference in how good it sounds out front. the sub handles the lows and lets you take the lows out of the top cabs, so they sound louder and better too.

either way, some XR18 basics:

go to "routing" and set your aux outputs to be either "input" or "analog", so that changing them in the mains won't affect them in the monitors or vice versa.

kick in the high-pass filters on everything except the kick, bass, and maybe the big toms, set to about 100Hz.

don't compress the overall mix but do compress the vocals a little bit.

use the parametric EQs for everything; they're so much better than graphic EQ, and with a touchscreen they're finally easier to use too.

do what you want on channel EQs (cut lows on vocals, boost lows and scoop low mids on kick drum, leave bass guitar mostly flat) but on the main and monitor EQs, only cut, never boost.

a pinch of reverb on the drums (and other "acoustic" instruments like acoustic guitars or horns) and a bit of delay on vocals.

finally, if you're an engineering type, get yourself the yamaha sound reinforcement handbook and study it, many questions will be answered.
Click to expand...


Great advice here.

As for digital, here's another thing I didn't mention: on *most* prosumer level digital mixers I've looked at, you've got multiple processors on each channel strip, each AUX buss and on the mains. E.g., noise gate, bandpass filters, compression, semi/parametric EQ, couple of FX - on each channel, aux and main! You'd need a rack the size of a refrigerator and a Scrooge McDuck cave of money to have similar in outboard/analog gear.

That said, I have been considering experimenting with an outboard tube channel strip for main vox only as well as a general EQ on the main outputs. The channel strip would ideally add some "tube warmth" to the vox while the GEQ would allow for quicker manipulation of the house mix. On the Presonus board, the GEQ is buried deep in the menu. On the other hand, that's just more gear to haul and cause problems!
 
#24
We have a small "sound on a stick" type system which is used for lower volume jobs and those where the money doesn't warrant a full system. This means that we only put vocals in the PA so its a set and forget situation. Most clubs we play, have sound. We'll hire sound for events and venues ours is not sufficient for. So, figure out what kind of situations you want to cover, and get the equipment for that. If you need more, hire somebody who has the goods (or have the client hire them, they're going to pay anyway).
 
#25
DirtDog said:
That said, I have been considering experimenting with an outboard tube channel strip for main vox only as well as a general EQ on the main outputs. The channel strip would ideally add some "tube warmth" to the vox while the GEQ would allow for quicker manipulation of the house mix. On the Presonus board, the GEQ is buried deep in the menu. On the other hand, that's just more gear to haul and cause problems!
Click to expand...
If you want to get fancy, some digital prosumer consoles (eg: X32) support external PC-based plugins over USB or Firewire interfaces. So.. for example, you can route your vocals thru a Waves plugin on your PC and back to the console. Pretty cool if you already own such plugins for studio purposes.

http://www.waves.com/live-sound/behringer
 
#26
richntiff said:
Ok, here's the situation:
My thoughts are:

QSC K12 mains (don't think I want to use the Harbingers for mains - although if we have two for a could gigs, we would run 2 of the Harbingers as mains, and 2 as monitors)
Add QSC subs as funding arises
Behringer XR18 digital mixer (want to upgrade mixer for more inputs, and built in effects over my Mackie)
Harbinger V2112 (already own) for monitoring - maybe go IEM someday, but not at this point
Click to expand...

I think you are heading in the right direction here, except my recommendation would be the QSC TouchMix 16 instead of the Behringer. I use K12's (sold my KW181 subs) and they sound fantastic with the QSC mixer. Plus the touch screen is very intuitive for those of us who are used to iPads, etc.

The channel presets on the TouchMix work really well, making getting a good sound for each instrument and vocalist very easy. This would be a huge plus for newbe sound operators. The QSC is also loaded with features for feedback elimination. I use an Audio-Techicia app on my iPad to actually see the hot frequencies, and then use one of the TouchMix filters (and/or) the 31 band EQ's that are available on every output. Usually takes less than a minute.

In closing, the QSC mixer would pretty well eliminate the need for any outboard rack gear, has a very small footprint, priced right, and is very user friendly. QSC also has a rebate program right now on the TouchMix series.

My only affiliation with QSC is as a product owner/user.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zooberwerx
#28
Well, I do advise that if you are mixing from the stage that you try not to be a "tweaker" - digital boards have way too many temptations for most folks to deal with LOL. I'll be doing just that tonight with my XR12 - but it's a multiband (2 that I play in) show and we're not going on first so I can get it dialed in beforehand. I rarely "ring out" the monitors as I don't "do" stoopid loud stage volumes - and my monitors were designed not to have any "peaks" unlike traditional cabs.

Really hard to beat one of the later model 1604's (with 16 XLR's), an Alesis Picoverb or Nanoverb, and four powered speakers (two mains, two monitors) for simplicity :) .
 
#29
RoadRanger said:
Well, I do advise that if you are mixing from the stage that you try not to be a "tweaker" - digital boards have way too many temptations for most folks to deal with LOL. I'll be doing just that tonight with my XR12 - but it's a multiband (2 that I play in) show and we're not going on first so I can get it dialed in beforehand. I rarely "ring out" the monitors as I don't "do" stoopid loud stage volumes - and my monitors were designed not to have any "peaks" unlike traditional cabs.

Really hard to beat one of the later model 1604's (with 16 XLR's), an Alesis Picoverb or Nanoverb, and four powered speakers (two mains, two monitors) for simplicity :) .
Click to expand...
Who uses a 4mic input board on a multi band gig. :facepalm:
 
  • Like
Reactions: s0c9
#31
1. Get a good soundman
2. Go digital, if it sounds bad doing it yourself ;see 1
3. I use the X32 with EV Zlx-15s , 18" and/or 15" EV Subs[depending on venue], I use my QSC k12 for monitors (colored the sound too much, EV=Crystal clear.) if you don't want to buy; see 1.
4. Go with the X18 more aux out for separate monitor feeds.
5. Cheap = bad sound (mostly) With the preamps in the X32 (should be the same in the X18)you can use the cheap Digital Reference mics and they sound like sm57 and 58's (side by side test) to start with.
6 if all else fails ;see 1.
7 Buy it and train your own soundman, if it still sounds bad ;see 1.
 
#33
Humbled said:
Maybe with a "Supersensitive microphone" ? :D
Click to expand...
Not needed - it has plenty of gain available on the TRS inputs for most things. I'd probably have to use one of the LR inputs for an overhead, especially if it needs phantom. Maybe I'll try that tonight - probably not to put the OH into the mains but just into the reverb. I do that on smaller gigs where the drumkit is already stoopid loud so just needs a bit o' kick in the PA LOL.
 
#34
Phil508 said:
1. Get a good soundman
Click to expand...
I've mostly given up on finding bands hereabouts that care enough about how they sound to hire a soundguy - most everyone does it from the stage (usually poorly). I mostly just play with my bands now and butcher sound from the stage like everyone else LOL.

Hey, I see you are local - stop by the PACC in Webster tonight 8-12 to see my FrankenBass/PA amp in action or tomorrow night at Beatnik's (9-1?) in Wormtown to hear my 9 piece horn band through a pair of Bose L1's - Woo :) ! I think the latter has a $5 cover but I'll spot you a beer :D.
 
Last edited:
#35
RoadRanger said:
I've mostly given up on finding bands hereabouts that care enough about how they sound to hire a soundguy - most everyone does it from the stage (usually poorly). I mostly just play with my bands now and butcher sound from the stage like everyone else LOL.

Hey, I see you are local - stop by the PACC in Webster tonight 8-12 to see my FrankenBass/PA amp in action or tomorrow night at Beatnik's (9-1?) in Wormtown to hear my 9 piece horn band through a pair of Bose L1's - Woo :) ! I think the latter has a $5 cover but I'll spot you a beer :D.
Click to expand...
I'm playing both nights, next time, let me know (if I'm not playing or running sound).
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoadRanger
#36
Hmm...I'll check that out. Live, I'm running my Presonus hooked up to my MacBook so I can use the Presonus VSL. I'll take a look-see if plug-ins function in that environment.

That said, the Presonus VSL has a number of 31-band EQs tied to the mains and AUX outs already.


s0c9 said:
If you want to get fancy, some digital prosumer consoles (eg: X32) support external PC-based plugins over USB or Firewire interfaces. So.. for example, you can route your vocals thru a Waves plugin on your PC and back to the console. Pretty cool if you already own such plugins for studio purposes.

http://www.waves.com/live-sound/behringer[/QUOTE
Click to expand...
 
#37
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
#39
I've been in a simular situation for many years, playing bass + being soundguy due to money (no explanation needed). If you understand gain structure, you can pretty much just amplify your band, correct the room-accoustics where needed, and then leave the settings alone. That said, the Biggest Problem most bands have is there on-stage sound. (If its crap, you'll keep 'twisting knobs', trying to correct the poopy bandsound) Do a rehearsal in a live setting, on a stage or empty club, and listen to what you as a band produce soundwise, without PA, or with a 'flat eq+no fx' PA!. If you get this right, the use of a small pa should be easy-peasy. (and then do what WalterW said)
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back