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Live Sound "BASICS", basic being the key word, need help!

P

pappas

Aug 12, 2012
6
0
#1
I am so disgusted! I want to learn about live sound, the mixer, all the connections, the AUX capabilities, recording, but every ******** book I buy starts right off with the usual terms and stuff I DO NOT UNDERSTAND! And I'm not a total stranger to this stuff (maybe one step up),

I'm in a gigging band, I play bass and do background vocals, I know the PA lines go out the back of the mixer, I know my mic line with the red tape goes in the red tape hole on the console. I know the volume switches and pan and a few other things but I really want to get into it and I get these books and get totally lost. They start right in, page one, with terms and stuff I do not understand!

I got a book last week called "Live Sound Basics". I thought, finally a basic book that I can read, couldn't wait to get it, well, as usual, chapter one starts with stuff I don't understand: the signal, voltage, etc. etc. I'M NOT AN ELECTRICIAN! I'm not a dope either, I have a degree (not that that means anything but just for the sake of this conversation), I have decent jobs/careers but this topic I just do not get.

About six months ago my cousin gave me a mixer, mics, wires, the whole nine yards. He used to have his own band but, kind of retired now, gave me the whole kit and caboodle (spelling?), says, here you go, use it for your band. Being that we already have all the equiptment we need I said to myself, cool, I'll use this as a prop and learn about live sound, HA, that's what I thought!

Anyway, thank you for letting me vent bass brothers and sisters. After all that I have just one question, does anybody know of a basic, basic, basic, basic book, about live sound that I might get?????????? Thanks a lot........Rick
 
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#2
so you never thought to look those words up in wiki?

Quite obviously, live sound engineering involves knowledge of electronics. Sorry. You're just gonna have to learn. But you don't need to learn it all just yet.

But really mate it's not rocket science.

I mixed my own and others bands without ever reading a book on it.

If you look at the whole mixing desk,it looks daunting, but look at each channel and you realise every channel is the same, learn one you learn em all.

Pretty simple,you plug your mics and DI into a stage box,from which the multicore runs into the back of the mixer,one cable for each channel. Every channel is basically the same,some have different routing.
Start with one channel, turn the gain up til it clips, or feeds back or screeches, then turn it down a tad. Rinse and repeat for each channel.
Then work on the EQ for each channel. Then the panning and individual volumes.
Each channel has a monitor send,where you send the signal for on-stage foldback if used. This would be the case in a small pub with a small PA, that's what I'm used to.

This is very very basic and simplified, but you get the drift?

Books might be giving you TOO much technical terminology you may not need yet.

Google live sound mixing. Just read the basics at first.

Go to the Live Sound section here, I'm sure it's all there for you.

Hope this helped a bit. I may be wrong on some of what I said,it's been 15 years since I mixed, and usually in small pubs, so that's my knowledge base,not very good lol.
 
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#4
I use the product manuals as my first line of defense...IOW, I can get stuff up and running.

Let me know what you've got (via PM , this thread, or other) and we can piece things together. Somewhere along the line, you'll smack your head a la V-8 and say "...oh, now I get it!".

Riis
 
#6
The Yamaha book mentioned previously is a great book. It does start off with some terms and definitions, but you can skip around to get the connection info you need.

As you move along, you'll want to go back and catch up on some of those terms and definitions. They will come in handy as you move along and run into the various issues that knowing that info will help you to solve.
 
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#8
kabacho said:
Can one link multiple active speakers without a mixer?
Click to expand...

Sure...but feeding them a signal from what? Keep in mind that what you're linking / chaining together are actually onboard power amps. Not to be confused with "daisy chaining" which more commonly refers to two passive speaker components tied to a single power amp by means of of a pass-thru speaker cable.

Riis
 
#9
Zooberwerx said:
Sure...but feeding them a signal from what? Keep in mind that what you're linking / chaining together are actually onboard power amps. Not to be confused with "daisy chaining" which more commonly refers to two passive speaker components tied to a single power amp by means of of a pass-thru speaker cable.

Riis
Click to expand...

My band is using a single active speaker for vocals, which is no enough. Can one link multiple having the source be a mic?
 
#13
Zooberwerx said:
Let me re-phrase: what active speakers are you using?

Riis
Click to expand...

Something very similar to this. Dunno the brand or type. I read 800w, but they sound so low.


115553063_15_Bi_amp_Active_Speaker_s.jpg
 
#15
kabacho said:
Something very similar to this. Dunno the brand or type. I read 800w, but they sound so low.
Click to expand...
Are you running any sort of mixer or preamp before the speaker? Most active speakers internal preamps don't do a great job with mics plugged straight in. Yes, you can link most active speakers IF they have the jacks for it (not all do, and the one in the pic supplied appears NOT to) ... and it IS called daisy-chaining. I have an old pair of Peavey PR12P (not the newer D model) that don't have a "link" or "pass thru" jack, so I can't with those, either.

It's hard for anyone to give you any good advice because we (and you) don't know what you're currently running. I'd need to know your signal chain from the mic/instrument to the speaker ... every brand and model. That can be simple or complex ... we just don't know.
 
#16
pappas said:
I am so disgusted! I want to learn about live sound, the mixer, all the connections, the AUX capabilities, recording, but every book I buy starts right off with the usual terms and I DO NOT UNDERSTAND! And I'm not a total stranger to this stuff (maybe one step up), I'm in a gigging band, I play bass and do background vocals, I know the PA lines go out the back of the mixer, I know my mic line with the red tape goes in the red tape hole on the console. I know the volume switches and pan and a few other things but I really want to get into it and I get these books and get totally lost. They start right in, page one, with terms and I do not understand! I got a book last week called "Live Sound Basics". I thought, finally a basic book that I can read, couldn't wait to get it, well, as usual, chapter one starts with s*it I don't understand: the signal, voltage, etc. etc. I'M NOT An ELECTRICIAN! I'm not a dope either, I have a degree (not that that means anything but just for the sake of this conversation), I have decent jobs/careers but this I just do not get. About six months ago my cousin gave me a mixer, mics, wires, the whole nine yards. He used to have his own band but, kind of retired now, gave me the whole kit and caboodle (spelling?), says, here you go, use it for your band. Being that we already have all the equiptment we need I said to myself, cool, I'll use this as a prop and learn about live sound, HA, that's what I thought! Anyway, thank you for letting me vent bass brothers and sisters. After all that I have just one question, does anybody know of a basic, basic, basic, basic book, about live sound that I might get?????????? Thanks a lot........Rick
Click to expand...

The first thing you have to conquer is your attitude. If you are reading through this stuff with a voice in your head yelling at you "THERE'S NO WAY I CAN EVER UNDERSTAND THIS STUFF!!", then you will never understand this stuff. You CAN understand it, it's just a matter of having an organized approach. It may be slow going at first, the same as it was when you first started playing whatever was the first instrument you learned, but same as then, if you approach it with a self defeating attitude you are dooming yourself to failure.

Whatever you are trying to read, whenever you encounter a term you don't know, stop and look it up. Then read and reread the problematic passage until you get the gist of it before you move on. It WILL get easier as you get more and more acquainted with the vocabulary. Have you ever made a snowman? The hardest part of rolling a snowball is getting it started; once it is round and heavy, all you have to do is roll it around.

I hear your frustration; I have felt it myself, many times. The only way past it is through it, and your attitude will determine whether you succeed or fail.
 
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#17
RustyAxe said:
Are you running any sort of mixer or preamp before the speaker?
Click to expand...

No.


RustyAxe said:
Most active speakers internal preamps don't do a great job with mics plugged straight in.
Click to expand...

Oh, so if I understand right, the speaker have the capacity of 800w, but the internal amp/preamp is not strong enough?

RustyAxe said:
It's hard for anyone to give you any good advice because we (and you) don't know what you're currently running. I'd need to know your signal chain from the mic/instrument to the speaker ... every brand and model. That can be simple or complex ... we just don't know.
Click to expand...

Nonetheless, thank you very much. If will try to find the right info soon.
 
#18
kabacho said:
Oh, so if I understand right, the speaker have the capacity of 800w, but the internal amp/preamp is not strong enough?
Click to expand...
Maybe ... depends on the equipment (mics, speaker). But that would be my first guess based on what we know so far. Powered speakers are usually used with some sort of preamp; either a standalone preamp, or a mixing board. Either produce a "line-level" signal to the speaker. A line level signal is much hotter that the passive signal produced by a microphone, and gives the speakers amps something to work with.

This document from Yamaha might give you some insight ... http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/News/SR_AppliGuide10NA.pdf
 
#19
kabacho said:
No.




Oh, so if I understand right, the speaker have the capacity of 800w, but the internal amp/preamp is not strong enough?
Click to expand...
Most of the powered speakers I have worked with are not designed to accept a mic/instrument level (~-60dB) signal even though they have XLR (balanced) inputs. They expect to see a line level (~0dB) signal. If that is the case with the one you are trying to use, if you plug a mic in and turn it all the way up, it will produce sound but at a very low volume.
 
#20
RustyAxe said:
Maybe ... depends on the equipment (mics, speaker). But that would be my first guess based on what we know so far. Powered speakers are usually used with some sort of preamp; either a standalone preamp, or a mixing board. Either produce a "line-level" signal to the speaker. A line level signal is much hotter that the passive signal produced by a microphone, and gives the speakers amps something to work with.

This document from Yamaha might give you some insight ... http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/News/SR_AppliGuide10NA.pdf
Click to expand...

ggunn said:
Most of the powered speakers I have worked with are not designed to accept a mic/instrument level (~-60dB) signal even though they have XLR (balanced) inputs. They expect to see a line level (~0dB) signal. If that is the case with the one you are trying to use, if you plug a mic in and turn it all the way up, it will produce sound but at a very low volume.
Click to expand...

I see. So maybe it will be a better investment to buy a mixing board than a second amp like I was planning.
So any cheap mixing board will do or do I need one that specifically matches my amp.

Thank you.
 

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