Please, do explain. I can't wait to hear a riveting dissertation on these missing basic functions.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Logic Studio vs Logic Express
- Thread starter crimson_basser
- Start date
Please, do explain. I can't wait to hear a riveting dissertation on these missing basic functions.
I vote Logic Pro (Logic Studio 8) for your needs. If you buy Logic Express you are likely going to upgrade if you are serious about it. I have Logic Studio 8 and I want and need for nothing when it comes to digital audio workstation software.
I have been a Logic user since Logic 6, right before Apple bought emagic. I've never looked back.
I have been a Logic user since Logic 6, right before Apple bought emagic. I've never looked back.
Best advice possible. David's book is spectacular.
I think the upgade to Studio is worth it just for Space Designer alone.
The reason you won't see Charling defending this statement is: it is not defensible. I've spent plenty of time behind Logic, old-Logic (Emagic), DP, PT, and Live and while they all have a different focus, they have a lot of overlap as well. Live certainly can be a good platform for multitrack recording. There is no deficiency there. Its roots are in loop manipulation, time stretching, pitch transposition, and live performance. Those are still its strengths, IMO. But all you would have to do is browse the feature list to see that it has other abilities, and it is definitely not a toy. As a player doing production and recording and using Live for a lot of it, my opinion is that Live is a good platform for recording, and a great platform for post production.
Logic is more of a traditional DAW, but it also can handle loops and manipulate pitch and tempo. I'd probably pick Logic if I was doing a lot of MIDI/Audio integration, and more traditional sounding work. As much as I like the Ableton instruments, The Logic instruments are more traditionally "pro" sounding. They are very different environments in which to work, but they can both generate professional results.
Logic is a great platform for audio recording, midi recording, and post production. I don't think that you would find it coming up short for anything you would encounter in recording a band or solo project.
When it comes to hardware I think you need to give some kind of idea of total track count and how many plugins you are going to want to hear in real time. The Mac Pro will give you the highest track count, but if your projects aren't huge, and you can print some effects during the project to cut down on CPU load, you can manage some pretty big projects on a iMac or a MacBook. Once you get up above maybe 24 tracks of 16/44.1, with some typical effects, you might start bumping up against the limit of a dual core machine. Might. A lot of it depends on how efficiently you can set up your project. Using inserts to let one plugin work on multiple tracks is a CPU saver, so is keeping the number of effects you are running at any one time to a minimum.
If you want to give a better idea of what you expect your peoject size to be it would be easier to give some specific feedback.
Logic is a great platform for audio recording, midi recording, and post production. I don't think that you would find it coming up short for anything you would encounter in recording a band or solo project.
When it comes to hardware I think you need to give some kind of idea of total track count and how many plugins you are going to want to hear in real time. The Mac Pro will give you the highest track count, but if your projects aren't huge, and you can print some effects during the project to cut down on CPU load, you can manage some pretty big projects on a iMac or a MacBook. Once you get up above maybe 24 tracks of 16/44.1, with some typical effects, you might start bumping up against the limit of a dual core machine. Might. A lot of it depends on how efficiently you can set up your project. Using inserts to let one plugin work on multiple tracks is a CPU saver, so is keeping the number of effects you are running at any one time to a minimum.
If you want to give a better idea of what you expect your peoject size to be it would be easier to give some specific feedback.
Well as of right now, my first project would be tackling my bands recordings. We got them done in a studio, but dont have enough money to finish as of right now.
So, these recording can get pretty big, and they involve both MIDI and real instruments.
All of the songs have:
8 tracks for all the pieces of the drums
1/2 bass tracks
2 rythm guitar tracks
1-3 lead guitar tracks
Midi piano track running through a large enough VST
Midi classical instruments: double basses, cellos, violins, trombones, french horns (often multiples of each instrument) running through a much larger VST
There is reverb on just about everything, delays on guitar leads and occasionally some wacky effects on bass.
So, to me thats rather large and if i try running the tracks from the studio on my PC (AMD 2.41 GHz, 1.87 gig RAM) sadly, it doesnt even play.
So idealy, i would like a computer that could handle songs this size (and larger of course) that combine MIDI and real recordings and a software that can easily and efficiently (and professionally) handle all of that as well.
Most recordings I do will probably be a lot smaller, but when it comes to my band at least, i know they will all be larger projects.
Thanks for all of the advice, i really appreciate this.
You have about 16 tracks of audio and a large MIDI ensemble, so maybe 32 total tracks. If you absolutely must have all tracks running their own plugins, a lot of independent high res reverbs, and your orchestral suite is using big sample libraries, etc... you could probably max out a iMac or MacBook Pro. Maxing out RAM will only get you so far. Especially if you record 24/48 or 24/96, the overhead piles up fast. If you worked in a way that conserved CPU, you could do handle that kind of project without going to a Mac Pro. I manage projcts between 24 and 36 tracks on a MBP, but I am a miser when it comes to cycles. If I have an effect-heavy track, I'll dupe it, mute it, and render the dupe to audio, saving me all the plugin overhead, for example. I can always go back and tweak the original, but for tracking and arranging I will often submix i.e. use the drum submix instead of running 8+ tracks of drums all the time.
A dedicated Logic user group will get you more/better answers on who is managing to run what on specific hardware.
Enjoy! It sounds like Logic is a great choice for your kind of pojects.
A dedicated Logic user group will get you more/better answers on who is managing to run what on specific hardware.
Enjoy! It sounds like Logic is a great choice for your kind of pojects.
That above process you describe is a one-click operation in Logic: Click "Freeze" and an audio file is rendered with all plugins combined. Need to make changes? Thaw the track, make your changes, then freeze again.
I have managed about a dozen projects in the 32-48 track range on a 4+ year old Power Mac G5 with dual 2.5 GHz PPC (old school) processors and I had to freeze tracks constantly to keep it from choking. On my new iMac 2.8 Core 2 Duo, those same projects don't even make it break a sweat!
Thanks for the tip! I am probably missing out by not using similar functionality in Live. I'll get right on it.
The problem here is that while I have no problem recommending Logic, I am a former Logic user and a current Live user. So some of the newer features in Logic aren't on my radar screen, and some of my workflow in Live hasn't adapted to the new features in Live7... Old horses, new tricks, etc...
When I first started working with computer recording I was using the early Digital Performer, and it was a really nice system. It still has a lot of great features but until as recently as last year the interface was seriously out of date and I couldn't stick with it. Then I had a chance to do some PT work, but missed the MIDI functionality and I found PT kinda primitive. IMO, PT is the best live audio (tracking, comping, rendering) solution out there, and it has the best plugins I have ever used, but it felt like I was running a math modeler, and I do that for a living and don't need to do it in the studio. Then I tried Logic and really liked the environment and that made DP seem kinda primitive. I use Live now because I like it more, and I work faster in it, and I am doing less "outside" work so it only matters to me that I like it. If I was doing projects for other bands I would have stuck with PT integrated with DP and left it at that.
Good to hear feedback from someone running larger projects on a modern mac platform. Thanks.
The problem here is that while I have no problem recommending Logic, I am a former Logic user and a current Live user. So some of the newer features in Logic aren't on my radar screen, and some of my workflow in Live hasn't adapted to the new features in Live7... Old horses, new tricks, etc...
When I first started working with computer recording I was using the early Digital Performer, and it was a really nice system. It still has a lot of great features but until as recently as last year the interface was seriously out of date and I couldn't stick with it. Then I had a chance to do some PT work, but missed the MIDI functionality and I found PT kinda primitive. IMO, PT is the best live audio (tracking, comping, rendering) solution out there, and it has the best plugins I have ever used, but it felt like I was running a math modeler, and I do that for a living and don't need to do it in the studio. Then I tried Logic and really liked the environment and that made DP seem kinda primitive. I use Live now because I like it more, and I work faster in it, and I am doing less "outside" work so it only matters to me that I like it. If I was doing projects for other bands I would have stuck with PT integrated with DP and left it at that.
Good to hear feedback from someone running larger projects on a modern mac platform. Thanks.
Here's another possibility to get up to speed on Logic.
macProVideo.com has several video lessons that you can download.
They walk you through a whole bunch of stuff that can be kind of
tricky to get through with just a book. It's pretty darn good.
And there are 11 different lessons that really dig into the
nitty gritty capabilities of Logic Pro (Logic Pro has an insane
number of capabilities).
Start with Invalid Link Removed.
It's not super cheap but it's a good value.
For $49.50, you get almost seven hours of video walking you through Logic Pro.
ive actually gone to recording forums and such and posted the same questions
but the only real decent answers ive gotten have been from you guys
go figure haha,
the people who are supposed to be "experts" on the subject arent givin me the light of day
i guess my first statement holds true, i figured id ask the people who would care a little more about a brother haha
but the only real decent answers ive gotten have been from you guys
go figure haha,
the people who are supposed to be "experts" on the subject arent givin me the light of day
i guess my first statement holds true, i figured id ask the people who would care a little more about a brother haha
well to be honest the reason I didn't defend my statement was that I had no internet at my new house, and I didn't feel like writing you a 'riveting dissertation'. I am a very experienced engineer working in some top studios in the UK and my opinion is based on a great amount of experience in the field! your reply was a little rude, well I took it to be anyway.
I probably shouldn't have used the word 'toy' as it sounds like I am belittling the program, as I say I use live a lot and I really like it! But there's plenty of good reasons why you dont see live in top studios, of course you can record a whole band on it to great result, similarly you can do a live set on pro tools to great result but they haven't been designed to do these tasks!
its the subtle things i would miss if I was using live, such as
flexible fades, shapes and lengths etc
flexible pug in delay compensation
bus based routing options giving you huge flexibility
sample level editing
simple workhorse functions like strip silence,
things that make comping takes easy such as logics take function or pro tools' playlists.
there's loads more of course, and there's obviously a similar list of functions live can do that PT can't!
The OP came here asking for advice on a program to record with, so I would always suggest something like PT, logic or cubase first. As you say there will always be overlap, as there is in programs of other natures such as digital imaging or video editing or anything else.
I still stand by my original comment, but as I say I still love using live! I'm not putting down the program, just saying that for straight 'recording bands' work one of the purpose designed daws would be better IMO.
O
I feel like no one is really listening to you. Keep in mind that the Logic studio is what ACTUAL studios use and make money off of having. If you are, like me, need something simple thats easy to use to track ideas and make some pretty decent quality demos, you will never need the full version. Personally it's a lot of stuff that I have no idea how to use anyway.
On a side note, there is a program called "Reaper" that's supposed to be amazing, don't know much about it though.
On a side note, there is a program called "Reaper" that's supposed to be amazing, don't know much about it though.
Logic Studio is dirt cheap compared to what you get. Space Designer alone could be worth $500, not to mention all the software instruments and other stuff Studio includes. I wouldn't buy Express.
The good news is that regardless of what platform you end up picking, be it Logic, Pro Tools, Reaper, etc... all of them use the same .wav or .aiff file formats for audio, so you aren't 'locked in' to a specific tool or product. You won't be able to open your projects in competing software platforms, but worst case scenario you could simply reimport your .wav or .aiff recorded audio into a new project in the different software and then get back to work.
