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Long Excursion HiFi Woofer in my Crate Amp

#21
I think that most Bass amps are tailored to the needs of 4-string basses and 5-string players find themselves forced to use 18" cabs to get adequate performance off the big string. This means longer excursion, lower free air resonance drivers to get the job done.

Sometimes innovation requires using the wrong tools.

wayne
 
#23
will33 said:
You're ignoring port air velocity. Your cab will go chuff, chuff, chuff when the cone gets moving and the air in that little tube can't keep up. Model it with the full power signal your amp has to give....and then some to allow for turning up the bass knob if needed.


I don't doubt this thing probably sounds better than what the Crate came with but +1 to all about using hifi woofers in bass cabs. Your bass signal has many power spikes, etc. where recorded music rarely deviates by more than 3db. All that lowend extension also comes at the price of sensitivity. Keep an eye on the foam surround and don't forget about the spider on the back side either. Try and find an xlim spec on that thing and calculate your safety margin.
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This amp has hard wired limiter built in. So, I should be OK for most amp spiking issues and it's only capable of 50% of the rated RMS power for the Foster. I will be watching that surround though and hopefully the VC won't start smoking like my 18" Black Widow likes to at the end of long jams. :D
 
#24
silky smoove said:
Tell that to Phil Jones or Acme.
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Acme is specing "Invalid Link Removed" in their little 12 cab. The Emminence BassLite already looks suspiciously like the new Foster 12" driver.

Basslite_S2010--3.jpg


They may have sourced Foster for their 12" just because to the 5-string market. Would be ironic if I just picked up a couple of Basslites for 30 bucks...:cool: I can dream. Ha Ha! I know the Eminence has the better Neo.. magnet and stuff...
 
#26
elroyjetsn said:
I think that most Bass amps are tailored to the needs of 4-string basses and 5-string players find themselves forced to use 18" cabs to get adequate performance off the big string. This means longer excursion, lower free air resonance drivers to get the job done.

Sometimes innovation requires using the wrong tools.

wayne
Click to expand...

Making some false assumptions there....read this.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/bass-frequency-waterfall-plots-what-they-mean-rigs-510749/
 
#27
elroyjetsn said:
I think that most Bass amps are tailored to the needs of 4-string basses and 5-string players find themselves forced to use 18" cabs to get adequate performance off the big string. This means longer excursion, lower free air resonance drivers to get the job done.

Sometimes innovation requires using the wrong tools.

wayne
Click to expand...

Way completely false. I get what you're trying to do, but with all the sage advice from the professionals who've responded thus far, it seems you aren't really interested in the scientific facts at all. The quoted statement above is evident of this.
 
#32
silky smoove said:
Your assumption is that you're hearing the fundamental. While that's not untrue, the vast majority of what you're hearing are the first and even the second overtones above the fundamental when you describe the low end of your tone. Trying to get a cab to reproduce a portion of your signal that's substantially lower than what you can hear more easily is a waste in most playing situations, including the one you're describing.
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Previously I was in a band that wanted the bass to be felt in the ribcage, but this band we try to focus on how our sound gels as a whole. I like to hear the fundamental padding and giving richness to our music. I presently don't play slap or leads, so I probably don't appreciate the importance of the overtones like most players.

I do want to move more to melodic playing like Jamerson and Lodge, but neither of those guys used effects much if at all to bring out the overtones. I don't think Sir Paul ever did either. Not real loud, but there. Jamerson used a good old Kustom 200 that was not much good for anything but the fundamental tone, Paul used Bassman and Voxs that had no horns, or 10's, the same with Lodge's HiWatts I think.

I played around with some slap on this driver and it was worthless for that to be sure. Point well taken. Some day I may need the fuller range.

Wayne
 
#34
Originally Posted by RickenBoogie
Way completely false.


__________________
You don't have to like it, but it's the truth no matter. Same thing with those "fundementals". We hear the open E (40Hz) much more as the 2nd harmonic, (80Hz). Just trying to help a brother through the confusion.
 
#35
billfitzmaurice said:
Rule #1 of Acoustical Engineering: There's no such thing as a free lunch. It's true that the hi-fi woofer has a looser suspension, and that it will allow higher output in the low end. But that low end output is realized at the expense of sensitivity in the mids. In a bedroom practice mode the added low end will sound good, but in a real gig situation the lack of midrange sensitivity may result in inadequate output to cut through in the mix.
You may find that the hi-fi driver works better for you in your particular application, and if so all well and good. But it would be the exception that proves the rule. Electric bass drivers don't go as low as hi-fi woofers because in the vast majority of cases their higher sensitivity and midrange response is more important than low end extension.
Click to expand...


These are words of wisdom. Sure, there's nothing like sitting in your living room with your 20Hz~20kHz 12" 3-way JBL's perfectly positioned, listening to studio mastered recordings with perfect dynamic range, and the deep bass becomes a transcendental experience.

But try to translate that to a live set up and it just don't work. Plus, sub 40hz signal at concert volumes cab be nauseating for most people.
 
#36
That's the thing I guess. You always can tell if there's an upright bass being played. Even though you may not hear it half the time. Cause it gives the band a complete sound and warmth. It's the first thing you notice, though, as you approach the room. Sort of the signature of a live performance.

There are some things that science is good for, but generally not for defining the human experience.
 

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