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LOOKING FOR 800W CLASS D AMP

#81
noeinstein said:
...I'm ready to pull the trigger, but there is one other thing I haven't been able to understand; the difference between the two for sale in the TB classified section. There are several GM800's and very few D800+'s for sale/sold over the past few months. (I also see several Mesa D800's, but those folks may be moving to the 800+.) Is this a function of release dates, unhappy users, coincidence, something else? Don't know, but it bothers me a bit. So, here I am...:confused:

Maybe I'll have a dream about it....
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I can only speak for myself as someone who owns both - see pic. Just recently made the decision to sell the Genzler, but it's a tough one. My buddies can attest that I'm wearing them out thinking through this because it's not clear cut to me.
IMG_8366.JPG

Let me first say that I'm not selling the Genzler because I prefer the Mesa necessarily. It's just a better fit for me. Both are really equal flavors of awesome. Genzler is a bit more transparent of an amp, especially with the BA12-3 cab, which is awesome too. Mesa has a little more color to the sound... in a good way if it's a color you like.

Backstory on how I ended up with both... I owned a Genzler Magellan 800 and Berg HDN212 and life was good. I bought a BA12-3 thinking I would have a 3x12 setup. Turns out, the Genzler box is bigger and didn't sit well on top like I had planned. I strongly considered getting a 2nd BA12-3 and selling the Berg. Wasn't out of the question until I scored a used Mesa + cheap on Reverb (600 shipped, don't hate).
IMG_8003.JPG IMG_8007.JPG IMG_8008.JPG

I'm keeping the Mesa/Berg and selling Genzler rig for 2 reasons:
1) my preferred rig of choice is an Ampeg V4B and 2x212AVs. Mesa can do 2 ohms (Genzler a "mere" 2.67) and is a great backup head for the V4B. I played my old Mesa D800 (not the +) through the 212AV cabs once, and it sounded awesome, so I know this works. If I have a super loud gig, I can run Mesa and 4 x 12s.
2) I prefer a single 2x12 cab as my small stage/portable rig... that's the Berg. Mesa sounds better to me with the Berg. Genzler sounded great with it's own cab. The bulkier size of the BA12-3 is partially why I like the svelte Berg more, although the BA12-3's size adds to the deep, clear sound. Just a personal thing... longtime CN212 owner.

Why this was a tough choice, to make a long story longer...
Genzler rig is really beautiful and full sounding. BA12-3 is an amazing cab... like nothing I've ever heard. I played all my basses through it (P flats, J stainless, modern, fretless, etc), and it is the truest representation of each. The Mesa/Berg rig isn't quite as transparent. The array covers mids and highs much better than a single tweeter... I had to hear it to understand. Even by itself, the single 12 gets very deep and is wonderfully round. Magellan head is versatile with 2 channels and 2 countour settings. So much flexibility. If I were doing more acoustic shows, I would keep this too. I still may end up keeping, but I need the money after buying a nice fretless recently. Maybe someone local will buy the 3rd cab, the GK, and I can keep both rigs.

Sorry for long post, but that's why my Genzler is posted and the Mesa + is staying with me.
 
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#84
I'll throw in a vote for the Demeter VTBP-M-800D. Two stage tube preamp (12AX7), tube driver (12AT7) for the Class D power section.
Dead simple controls: Vol, Bass, Mids Treble, Presence with switchable Q points for Bass (60 or 120hz) and Presence (2 or 4khz).
Its a clean machine, but definitely warm and fat. I moved to the Demeter after many years with the very tube flavored Mesa Walkabout.
I loved the WA (still do) but my challenge with the WA was that with 300w @ 4ohms it would tend to run out of headroom on my louder gigs.
The Demeter gets me tube warmth and I have never run it out of headroom.
great amp

good luck with your search. cool thing is that there are so many great options for you to consider.
 
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#85
I'm familiar with the Genzler and the Subway. I really feel that if I were in that market I'd go for the Darkglass. I think that it sounds clearer and punchier but with a very balanced sound.
 
#86
I just ordered a D-800+ tonight after being in your shoes for the past 2 months. Made the decision after reading numerous internet reviews, post here on TB and playing a friends D800. The customer service from Mesa is excellent and so is there 5 yr. transferable warranty.
Good luck with your decision, you got some excellent suggestions on your thread!
 
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#89
mmbongo said:
It's actually very important if you want to run four 8 ohm cabs, or two 4 ohm cabs. Mesa is designed to do just that. The Genzler is not.
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I would sure hope not. Given the variables in AC impedance over various frequencies (including the "lower-ish", bass guitars and cabinets) the difference between 2.00 and 2.67 *ratings* should be moot. If the amp *rated* at 2.67 cannot handle a 2.00 ohm *rated* load then that's a problem with an amp or system you wouldn't want.
 
#91
jjmf said:
Ive had a B Amp, MicroTubes 900, Markbass LM T800 & SA450, and Tech 21 VT 500 (plus SVT CL, SVT 2Pro, Traynor Mono block 2, Hartke LH1000 for lead sleds)
I find many of the New D class amps have too much mid presence (when flat / in general) - but all were capable of eq'ing many different sounds
Have tried Mesa D800 and + (definitely prefer the plus but flat I find them a bit lacking articulate clarity and "edge/top", as well as GK MB and MBF's - (which I prefer sound of based on that clearer crunchy GK sound- articulate etc)

I found the GK, Mesa & Markbass ones to be most "eq-able" to reach wider varieties of sounds -
The B amp & Microtubes 900 are the most clear and punchy of the bunch and while many love the Darkglass distortion I find its a bit harsh in this amp for my tastes and uses / other gear matching etc. I also found the B Amp Distortion / OD Fuzz sounds usable.

BUT both were a bit clinical for me (which given their design goals are about a clear unvoiced sound that you can then work over with their tonal shaping options etc - I am sure was their intention) and I found that while my Markbass amps did not have the same tight killer clarity, punch and articulation, they did allow for a wider range of tonal "shaping" based on larger db ranges (ie Bass is +/- 16db vs 9db with B amp etc) and variable preset filter (although the LMT800 does not have semi / parametric mid capabilities and therefore can sound a bit empty in the mid zones when fully engaging the Variable Present filter - but still very usable clear voice)

I also own a Tech21 VT500 - extremely versatile with a decent SVT mimic, and of course their sweepable sound samples knob creates a lot of options and usable tones - clean sound is ok....(ie with no tone sound chosen)

I m still also searching for the perfect D class for me (2 ohms, mega watts, tones of tonal shaping tools, some OD/Distortion/Tube sounds that kick ass etc)

I love the idea of having an amp by "clear, articulate & colorless" so you can hear your basses but then you need a great set of EQ tone carving tools to create variety etc...
Of Course - This is All in My HUMBLE opinion & experience and mainly when using Bergantino Cabs (AE, HD Series 2 & 410s mainly, some work with NV610, Euphonic Audio VL210's)
I have yet to get my hands on a TH500, Quilter BB, Genzler, Monique, Demeter, Meatsmoke .... and many more...
:(
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I hear ya. I have kind of narrowed it down to the Aguilar and the Darkglass, although I am still planning on returning to the Markbass dealer. A few years ago a friend was considering an LH1000 or a Markbass combo. We liked the sound of both, but the MB was a noBrainer because of its size. But I preferred the Hartke for its rich sound. I felt the Markbass sounds very sweet, but just ever so slightly processed to my ear. But tone shaping is fantastic. ... Anyway, fast forward, and set flat the Darkglass and the Aguilar are very similar, full bodied and round, tubey, with the DG slightly cleaner and prettier up high. The Aggie is a tad furrier in high-high mids. I still find the DG OD to be wonderful and fun, but almost too fun, if you know what I mean. Same with the Markbass. Am I playing bass or amp? Mind you, I have found nearly all Class D's these days be respectable, but no single one has been the one. I fell in love with my Kern and have been faithful ever since. But, hey, you know what they say, if you stop lookin', you're dead.
 
#92
About a year ago, I a/b'd the TH500 with a 4x12 against an SVT/8x10. I tried to match the sounds as best as I could. I found the Aggie to do a pretty good SVT impersonation, the only quibble was the note bloom was not as pronounced. Ever since it has been #1 on my list, so I was eager to compare to the Darkglass.
 
#93
So many great choices!

The question can not be answered in the absence of the rest of the rig. Cabs especially tend to yin yang with the various voicings in the amps. Then, there are the player's prefs and axes that are being used. Flats? Rounds? Passive? Active? What kind of mix is being supported? Lots of pretty important relational questions. That's one reason the player has to try a few of the amps to see what works.

The Bergantino B|Amp seems to be the chameleon, in that it can be pretty strongly varied in its voicing. I like it, because it sounds amazing set dead flat; but, then I am using Berg cabs.

I also like the Demeter; but, then I've also been playing James' preamp in one form or another back to when he designed the preamp stage in the early Edens. So, that's the voicing I'm used to.

I could probably make any of them work; though the amps that have a lot of heavy low end baked in wouldn't be a good match with my cabs. But, that's my rig. Cats need to keep an open mind, use their ears, understand the rest of their gear, and try a couple. Theory guides, experiment decides.
 
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#94
Dave M said:
I would sure hope not. Given the variables in AC impedance over various frequencies (including the "lower-ish", bass guitars and cabinets) the difference between 2.00 and 2.67 *ratings* should be moot. If the amp *rated* at 2.67 cannot handle a 2.00 ohm *rated* load then that's a problem with an amp or system you wouldn't want.
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Not true at all. The difference in current required between 2 and 2.67 ohms is another ~30%. This can in fact be a big deal.
 
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#97
noeinstein said:
I'm in the market for a class d 800w amp and I thought I'd ask for some thoughts before I jump.

Like most, I can't easily a/b amps. As a result I've tried and sold a GK mb fusion 500 and an Aguilar TH500... liked them, but didn't love either. I have a Kustom KXB500, which is a good enough back up, but looking for a first stringer.

I grew up playing motown, blues, r&b and still love that sound. Kind of a set it and forget it, warm, round and fat, finger-style kind of bass player. Most of my playing is below the 7th fret and nothing fancy.

I'm considering the Mesa Subway 800, GK MBF 800, and Markbass lmt 800, about in that order.

I'd appreciate any info, especially from those with experience, thanks!

Jack
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I just got the Gallien Krueger MB 800 Fusion last week and totally love it! By far, the best head unit I have ever owned. I'm going to pair it with 2 NEO 410 Cabs from Gallien Krueger when they come in.
 
#100
Just a quick follow up. I tried some Markbass heads and was very impressed with the Nano! Am I wrong or does it sound different than the Little Mark III? The Treble EQ seemed to be clearer and brighter. It can get loud, too. The LM III sounded dull by comparison. The shop did not have the Ninja, but I would like to try that too.
 

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