Looking for cabinet (and possibly amp) advice

[subject42]

I've been running a Genzler Magellan 350 head with a Barefaced One10 and Phil Jones Bass C2 cabinet for a while now. I love the sound, and I love how little space it takes up for transport. I've recently fallen into a new regular gig with a band that's much, much louder than my other group, and the current configuration isn't quite cutting it. In particular, the drummer is incredibly heavy handed compared to the guy in my other group. I know PA support is always an option (and I use it), but I'd like to be ready for the times when it's not available due to the venue or extenuating circumstances.

At the moment, it seems like the C2 is the weakest link in the chain. I've considered replacing it with another One10, but the lack of US presence makes me a little concerned about the logistics of long-term support.

Given the notes below, would any of you be willing to throw out some opinions or suggestions for me to research? Nothing is really off the table here.

• Physical dimensions are very important to me. I don't have a lot of room available in my home or my car, so smaller gear offers a lot of value to me.
  • Total volume is important here. If somebody can suggest a single cab that's not particularly bigger than the two above for a comparable sound, I'm interested.
• I would prefer a company with a good US presence, if only for reasons of long-term logistics.
• I prefer things that are sturdily constructed. I'm clumsy, so if something is twice as flimsy but sounds twice as good, I will probably break it and make it sound half as good.
• I am not particularly price sensitive, though obviously, all other things being equal, the gear that costs less is more attractive than the gear that is more expensive.
• I am not particularly weight sensitive, though obviously, all other things being equal, the gear that weighs less is more attractive than the gear that weighs more.
• I like the way I sound through the One10. I used to have a Markbass CMD121P combo with the 12" extension that I did not love, but I never had volume problems.
  • I'm terrible at using common terms to describe "tone", but I like that the open E string sounds clean, and I like the emphatic mid-range, and I like that the twangy, metallic high end sounds never really show up.
  • Having played through a few other cabinets here and there, I get the feeling that I just don't like Neo drivers?
• Simplicity is good. I currently do not use a pedal chain. The fanciest I get is setting the amp to its "vintage" voicing and turning it up about 10%. I don't even really change the EQ away from flat settings.
  • I like the way the amp head sounds - particularly with a little bit of that "vintage" voicing.

I'd appreciate any suggestions you all might have.

 

[Wasnex]

The C2 is definitely the weak link.

Usually when you add a cab it's connected in parallel with the first cab. With a parallel connections, here is what happens when you add a matching cab.

1. Combined impedance is 1/2
2. Combined power handling is 2X
3. Combined sensitivity is +3dB

These changes occur every time you double the number of cabs: 1,2,4,8,16 cabs, etc.

The sensitivity of the One10 is 95dB 1W/1m and AFAIK it's an 8 ohm cab rated for 200W. With 1W. the cab makes 95dB measured at a distance of 1 meter. Every time the usable power is doubled you assume the SPL goes up 3dB. At 200W, calculated SPL is 10Log(200) + 95 = 118dB. IMHO, 118dB will be get the job done with a fairly loud drummer, but it will not be a joyful experience for the bass player .

If you connect a second 8 ohm cab, available power is shared equally by both cabs. With two One10s the combined sensitivity is 98dB. So at 1W you will get 98dB. However each cab is only getting 1/2W and producing 92dB. So basically the combined output of a pair of matching cabs is 6dB higher than the SPL being produced by one of the cabs.

AFAIK PJ does not post the sensitivity rating for the C2. Pretty sure it's significantly lower than the One10. Let's assume it's 5dB lower at 90dB 1W/1m and call it Cab B. Let's assume we are sending 1W total to a One10 and Cab B. Each cab gets 1/2W

SPL

• One10 = 92dB
• Cab B = 87dB
• Combine output of both = 95.876dB *
  • This means the combined Sensitivity of both cabs is 95.876 1W/1m. So Cab B is adding less than 1dB. Remember the sensitivity of a One10 is 95dB 1W/1m.

* Results from: Sengpiel Online Calc

This is just to show you how it works. The actual sensitivity of the C2 may be higher or lower than 90dB. What you need to know is there is a point at which adding a second cab actually reduces how much headroom the rig can produce. This occurs if the difference in sensitivity is 8dB or more.

FYI the theoretically perfect combined sensitivity of multiple One10s.

• One One 10 = 95dB 1W/1m with 200W of power handling at 8 ohms
• Two One10s is 98dB 1W/1m with 400W of power handling at 4 ohms
• Three One10s is 99.8dB 1W/1m with 600W of power handling at 2.67 ohms

Real world combined sensitivity estimates will be slightly less because coupling is not perfect.

The Magellan 350 is rated 175W at 8 ohms and 350W at 4 or 2.67 ohms. Calculated SPL:

• One10 at 175W = 117.4dB
• Pair of One10s at 350W = 123.4dB
• Three One10s at 350W = 125.2dB

There is really no point in getting a more powerful amp for a single One10 as the decibel different between 175W and 200W is only 0.6dB.

However a more powerful amp could make sense with multiple One10s.

• One10 at 200W = 118dB
• Pair of One10s at 400W = 124dB
• Three One10s at 600W = 127.6dB

If you want to go a different route and keep your amp, consider and 4 ohm cab with a relatively high sensitivity rating.

Mesa Subway 215

• Impedance = 4 ohms
• Power Handling = 800W
• Sensitivity =100.4dB 1W/1m
• Calculated SPL at 350W = 125.8dB
• Weight = 60lbs

 

[gtirard]

I've considered replacing it with another One10, but the lack of US presence makes me a little concerned about the logistics of long-term support.

• Logistics: if you are concerned about the tarrifs for UK, it's just a hidden cost you have to take into account IMHO.
• Support: Barefaced cabs are almost indestructible, I've never seen anyone reporting any damage. It would be a real concern for a carbon fiber cab for example, but I don't think there's any risk with a second One10.

I would buy a second One10 if I were you, because you love its tone, and you need more volume, while keeping things small. And adding a second identical cab is safe and predictible tone-wise, whereas mixing 2 different cabs is like rolling a dice.
Another option would be to buy a 4 ohm Two10, that would make a very modular setup. And/or replace the Magellan 350 by a 800W amp.

 

[Aloe]

well, one ceramic 1x10 (albeit, a stellar one) and a c2 (like a half of a 10") is definitely on a low side for gigging with a very heavy handed drummer and without foh. I'd say, something in 4x10 ballpark is your safer bet.

if I was in your shoes, I'd get one loud 210 to use it with your 'quiet' bands instead of two cabs you currently have and a second 210 to take both for louder occasions.

if you love the barefaced, I'd bite the bullet for a two10. maybe spend some time before that trying stuff with good local presence first (if they really have good presence, you'd be able to play them). 210, 410, 215 or a 115 with intent to use a pair would be my top choices.

 

[subject42]

• Support: Barefaced cabs are almost indestructible, I've never seen anyone reporting any damage. It would be a real concern for a carbon fiber cab for example, but I don't think there's any risk with a second One10.

That's reassuring. It's so light that I have a hard time believing that it could take any real abuse.

 

[subject42]

a very heavy handed drummer

This guy is very good, but Christ almighty. Somehow he's louder with brushes than my other guy is with sticks.

 

[Jesuguru]

If you like the sound of Barefaced 10" speakers, multiple 110's or (better) 210's is a safer bet.

If you'd consider their 12"s, which are more neutral than the vintage-voiced 10's, a Super Compact (or two) or Super Twin would be end-game - no small/mid-sized venue off limits, no drummer stands a chance. They're not cheap, but "Buy once cry once."

They're also less efficient than the 10's, so an amp upgrade might be needed. But watts are cheap, especially if you'd consider used... 800 Class D watts is practically a commodity these days.

 

[Hnz]

All you need is a Phil Jones Bass C8.

You can pair it with the C2 and use that as a personal monitor with a stand or crate and point it at you.

Problem solved!

 

[Aloe]

All you need is a Phil Jones Bass C8.

You can pair it with the C2

both are 8 ohms, so same power will go to 2x8 as to 8x8, i.e. a very unbalanced rig.
and even a 500W head will blow that poor c2. while you'll want at least a 500-800W head for the C8 alone.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Barefaced 2x10 [use vertical] switch at 4 ohm [gives you 2.67 ohm]

For 'US Presence' Genzler has their NU Classic series that claims more vintage voiced Cabs like Barefaced 10's

putting 2 different cabs together even same maker sensitivity is important; In my example Genzler NU 2X10 is 98db and Barefaced is 95 not sure if it is significant maybe Wasnex can help but there also is different way manufactures test Sensitivity

You could relegate Barefaced to home practice and look at Genzler NU Classic 2x12/Ampeg SVT 2X12AV/VB 2X12 or other top US presence Cabs Mesa, Aguilar, Darkglass has some nice cabs Finland co. but good US Presence

 

[ELG60]

Barefaced 2x10 [use vertical] switch at 4 ohm [gives you 2.67 ohm]

For 'US Presence' Genzler has their NU Classic series that claims more vintage voiced Cabs like Barefaced 10's

putting 2 different cabs together even same maker sensitivity is important; In my example Genzler NU 2X10 is 98db and Barefaced is 95 not sure if it is significant maybe Wasnex can help but there also is different way manufactures test Sensitivity

You could relegate Barefaced to home practice and look at Genzler NU Classic 2x12/Ampeg SVT 2X12AV/VB 2X12 or other top US presence Cabs Mesa, Aguilar, Darkglass has some nice cabs Finland co. but good US Presence

Pretty much.

 

[Pep]

If your needs weren’t immediate I would suggest a Greenboy F112 to go with your Barefaced 10, but their build time is way out there.

 

[subject42]

If your needs weren’t immediate I would suggest a Greenboy F112 to go with your Barefaced 10, but their build time is way out there.

I've heard of these as some kind of mythical thing. What's their actual real world experience? One of the authorized makers isn't THAT far from me.

 

[Wasnex]

I've heard of these as some kind of mythical thing. What's their actual real world experience? One of the authorized makers isn't THAT far from me.

The F112 uses an Eminence 3012LF woofer. Per the spec sheet, Sensitivity is 95.5dB 1W/1m. About the same as the One10.

If you need more SPL consider the F212.

 

[RestlessBoom]

Another option would be to run a two-amp system. I run one mostly clean for the lows and the other gets aggressively high-passed for my extra dirt and other effects. Ridiculous amounts of volume on tap.

 

[Corbusier]

I've been running a Genzler Magellan 350 head with a Barefaced One10 and Phil Jones Bass C2 cabinet for a while now. I love the sound, and I love how little space it takes up for transport. I've recently fallen into a new regular gig with a band that's much, much louder than my other group, and the current configuration isn't quite cutting it. In particular, the drummer is incredibly heavy handed compared to the guy in my other group. I know PA support is always an option (and I use it), but I'd like to be ready for the times when it's not available due to the venue or extenuating circumstances.

At the moment, it seems like the C2 is the weakest link in the chain. I've considered replacing it with another One10, but the lack of US presence makes me a little concerned about the logistics of long-term support.

Given the notes below, would any of you be willing to throw out some opinions or suggestions for me to research? Nothing is really off the table here.

• Physical dimensions are very important to me. I don't have a lot of room available in my home or my car, so smaller gear offers a lot of value to me.
  • Total volume is important here. If somebody can suggest a single cab that's not particularly bigger than the two above for a comparable sound, I'm interested.
• I would prefer a company with a good US presence, if only for reasons of long-term logistics.
• I prefer things that are sturdily constructed. I'm clumsy, so if something is twice as flimsy but sounds twice as good, I will probably break it and make it sound half as good.
• I am not particularly price sensitive, though obviously, all other things being equal, the gear that costs less is more attractive than the gear that is more expensive.
• I am not particularly weight sensitive, though obviously, all other things being equal, the gear that weighs less is more attractive than the gear that weighs more.
• I like the way I sound through the One10. I used to have a Markbass CMD121P combo with the 12" extension that I did not love, but I never had volume problems.
  • I'm terrible at using common terms to describe "tone", but I like that the open E string sounds clean, and I like the emphatic mid-range, and I like that the twangy, metallic high end sounds never really show up.
  • Having played through a few other cabinets here and there, I get the feeling that I just don't like Neo drivers?
• Simplicity is good. I currently do not use a pedal chain. The fanciest I get is setting the amp to its "vintage" voicing and turning it up about 10%. I don't even really change the EQ away from flat settings.
  • I like the way the amp head sounds - particularly with a little bit of that "vintage" voicing.

I'd appreciate any suggestions you all might have.

I recommend Trickfish. The cabinets are built like tanks and the Eminence Neodymium speakers sound fantastic.

Also, I recommend, with this, the Trickfish Bullhead .5K amplifier. I believe you will want the complete system.

I’ve got a TF210 cabinet that sounds amazing but you can purchase two TF110s, be very portable and still get that great sound.

There are custom fitted covers for transport.

I play an American Fender Jazz and went through several amps looking for a tube amp sound. The Bullhead amp is the ONLY Class D amp I found for a reasonable price that could do this. This amp and cabinet are extremely versatile and can also sound as modern as you want or anywhere between modern and tube.

Trickfish.

 

[Deloofs]

I've heard of these as some kind of mythical thing. What's their actual real world experience? One of the authorized makers isn't THAT far from me.

Greenboy cabinets in general are known for having have high power handling and SPL with light weight and flat frequency response. They have been around for a long time with time-tested results. They could be a good option for you however you might not like their voicing if you're used to cabinets which color your tone.

 

[SJan3]

I recommend Trickfish. The cabinets are built like tanks and the Eminence Neodymium speakers sound fantastic.

Also, I recommend, with this, the Trickfish Bullhead .5K amplifier. I believe you will want the complete system.

I’ve got a TF210 cabinet that sounds amazing but you can purchase two TF110s, be very portable and still get that great sound.

There are custom fitted covers for transport.

I play an American Fender Jazz and went through several amps looking for a tube amp sound. The Bullhead amp is the ONLY Class D amp I found for a reasonable price that could do this. This amp and cabinet are extremely versatile and can also sound as modern as you want or anywhere between modern and tube.

Trickfish.

Have you tried an Aguilar Tonehammer amp for tube-like tone?

 

[chrisbmets]

I recommend Trickfish. The cabinets are built like tanks and the Eminence Neodymium speakers sound fantastic.

Also, I recommend, with this, the Trickfish Bullhead .5K amplifier. I believe you will want the complete system.

I’ve got a TF210 cabinet that sounds amazing but you can purchase two TF110s, be very portable and still get that great sound.

There are custom fitted covers for transport.

I play an American Fender Jazz and went through several amps looking for a tube amp sound. The Bullhead amp is the ONLY Class D amp I found for a reasonable price that could do this. This amp and cabinet are extremely versatile and can also sound as modern as you want or anywhere between modern and tube.

Trickfish.

I just got the Bullhead 1k and the TF212 and I cannot agree more. The cabs are built like tanks. I’m thinking of adding a TF210 to the 212. The Bullhead 1k has tons of headroom and sounds awesome!

 

[Corbusier]

Have you tried an Aguilar Tonehammer amp for tube-like tone?

I have not, but have read good things about it. I am very satisfied, finally, with the setup listed.