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Double Bass looking for decent recording mic

PB+J

PB+J

Mar 9, 2000
1,647
153
arlington va
#1
I have an MXL 990, which is ok, but it's a very inexpensive mic (about 50 bucks) and I think I can hear its limitations on recordings. I assume I could do better, but I can't realistically send more than $200 bucks. I want a large diaphragm condenser to record bass and acoustic guitar.

I've heard many good things about the Rode NT1-A, and a local store has it for $195. Any thought n this or other mics in the $200 price range?
 
#2
I've had good results with the Audio Technica 4030, the classic model. These are about $400 new but can be found on eBay used now and then for +/-$200. Admittedly this is not "made for bass" but it is a great all around mic for acoustic instruments. This is typically what's been used for acoustic recordings in the bluegrass and folk vein, as a stereo pair, recording a "live" studio performance. It has a switch for low-rolloff (80hz I think) and a switch for -10dB pad if you need it.

I have some samples of me playing my Epiphone into it -- but at a distance of about 3 or 4 feet, so there's a lot of room/space in the sound:

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These recordings were made with the pad and the rolloff switches on, so some of the nuance has been filtered out, but hopefully it will give you an idea. Oh, and they were quickly and sloppily done, and the bass is not set up for arco, so pay no attention to the poor playing! :rolleyes:
 
#3
I know some folks who swear by the Studio Projects B1. It is super cheap, but works a charm. Built to a budget, but it sounds great. For the price, you can get two, have one close up and one 3 feet away for some 'room sound', and mix the two signals together.

The Rode NT1a is a good mic, but for the money, I think you are starting to get into the realms of taste and what you want from a mic - there are other contenders in that price range. The SP B1 is unbeatable in its price range, and will give the Rode a run for its money.
 
#6
PB+J said:
I have an MXL 990, which is ok, but it's a very inexpensive mic (about 50 bucks) and I think I can hear its limitations on recordings. I assume I could do better, but I can't realistically send more than $200 bucks. I want a large diaphragm condenser to record bass and acoustic guitar.

I've heard many good things about the Rode NT1-A, and a local store has it for $195. Any thought n this or other mics in the $200 price range?
Click to expand...

Can you describe the limitations you are hearing? What's your room like? What other recording gear are you using?
 
#7
The room I use is very dead--it's a small office packed with a wall and a half of books with some guitars hanging in it. Windows covered with wooden venetian blinds--it's a very acoustically dead space.

I know the difference between, say, a great preamp and an ordinary preamp--it's just more pleasing all around; better lows, better highs, warner, more detailed, more "dimensional." I did a recording with the MXL 990 about 6 inches from the bridge--to my ears it's kind of flat, but of course, that could be my playing or it could be the room. The preamp is a Mackie Onyx--decent, not great, but certainly respectable. I'm a novice recordist and not that much of a bass player but I think I'm hearing the limits of the mic in this recording--maybe not

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#8
PB+J said:
--to my ears it's kind of flat, but of course, that could be my playing or it could be the room.
Click to expand...

The better the gear the more it's going to sound like you playing your bass in your room. How does the room really sound? If it's bad you're gonna' have a tough time getting a recording that transcends the sound of the room. Upright needs lots of room to sound good in my opinion. At least 2000 cubic feet...more would be better.

Cheers,
Phil
 
#9
I've been very impressed with Rode mics. A friend recently sent a couple of very old damaged ones back to the factory and they were completely refurbished for free.
The NT-1 is excellent; the little NT-5's are very transparent sounding. A new cheaper mic you might like to check out is the M3: Link Removed
 
#10
PB+J said:
The room I use is very dead--it's a small office packed with a wall and a half of books with some guitars hanging in it. Windows covered with wooden venetian blinds--it's a very acoustically dead space.

I know the difference between, say, a great preamp and an ordinary preamp--it's just more pleasing all around; better lows, better highs, warner, more detailed, more "dimensional." I did a recording with the MXL 990 about 6 inches from the bridge--to my ears it's kind of flat, but of course, that could be my playing or it could be the room. The preamp is a Mackie Onyx--decent, not great, but certainly respectable. I'm a novice recordist and not that much of a bass player but I think I'm hearing the limits of the mic in this recording--maybe not

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Click to expand...
I know the MXL 990;- I have one. I've used mics that cost 20 times as much, but the room you are describing might be the weakest link in the system you are using. It's not like recording an electric instrument. Acoustic instruments depend on the room and a double bass needs a lot of it. And it needs to be a live room. The best recordings I've made of my bass (all done with the MXL pair, 990 and 991) were done in large rooms with wooden floors (not on a slab, but on joists), plaster walls, 2 or 3 glass windows, and some furniture (padded couches, chairs,) or small rugs to absorb some of the echos. The normal living room or dining room is not a bad start. Experiment. Place the mics (whatever they are) further away, say 3 to 4 feet for one mic and across the room for another and use two mics. Once you get something sounding right that way, then maybe think about the expensive mics and pre-amps. It's just like anything else, expensive gear will not cure a problem in method.

My brother has a studio with really first class mics and pre-amps. He was actually quite impressed with some recordings that I did with the MXL pair. These do have limitations of course. Mostly in sound pressure level and there is a bit of a bias toward the highs, but placement and room can make a huge difference in what you are getting. Also, you will not notice a quantum quality difference in the mics without spending a whole bunch more;- probably like ten times as much.
 
#11
Silversorcerer said:
Experiment. Place the mics (whatever they are) further away, say 3 to 4 feet for one mic and across the room for another and use two mics.
Click to expand...
I am no expert, but I was gonna suggest two mics too. One real close in level with the bridge, somewhere in between the vertical center line of the bass and the treble side F-hole, anywhere from 3" to 18" away in a more or less traditional spot out in front of you. And the other, maybe a condensor, up closer to your left hand and FB maybe.

I don't know which is more important to you - the ambient spatial room sound from the second mic like Silver suggested, or more FB sound perhaps. It also probably depends on what type of recording - solo bass, or a densely mixed group for example.

But like he said, even with a single mic, experimenting with location and placement can yield some pretty dramatically different results IME. Maybe even where you place yourself and your bass in the room too. I always "X" the sweet spot for my endpin on the floor w/ duct tape once I think I've found a spot in the room that works.
 
#12
well this is interesting--Logic Pro has a "space designer" plug-in that lets you simulate the sound of various rooms/chambers/reverbs etc. It seems to add a lot of what I found missing before--"air" in the tone and a more dynamic sound. Cheating, I suppose. But I'm willing to do it, since I can't really make my home office into a nice sounding room
 
#13
I listened to the track and I have some thoughts:

I don't think your room is as dead as you might think. Silversorcerer and Phil are right - I'm hearing some muddiness in the low end, and some boxiness caused by bad reflections in the room. I know you said the room is dead, but it's unlikely to be dead in the lower frequencies unless you have done some specific room treatments to absorb bass freq.. You also said the room is small, which just makes it worse since the walls are closer to your bass.

Read some articles like this:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/acoustics-principles/bass-traps-not-just-for-fisherman
Or this:
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Your mic is not bad, Onyx pres are pretty good. Finding a different room or treating the one you have will help you more than a mic right now, I believe.

Another thought is that we are all pretty used to hearing recordings in stereo. You are listening to your bass recorded in mono - keep that in mind. You may wish to get a second MXL and play around with some stereo mic techniques after you get the room issues sorted out.
 
#14
Phil Redman said:
The better the gear the more it's going to sound like you playing your bass in your room. How does the room really sound? If it's bad you're gonna' have a tough time getting a recording that transcends the sound of the room. Upright needs lots of room to sound good in my opinion. At least 2000 cubic feet...more would be better.

Cheers,
Phil
Click to expand...

Phil, check your PMs...
 

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