Looking for good exercises for horizontal movement

[bench]

My tip would be that if you shift position the the notes before and after the shift should be fretted by different fingers. Even if it means that if you go up the neck you shift from pinky to index, which might seem counter intuitive at first. A shift with the same finger should be avoided imo...

if you want to go hardcore watch this. 5 hours of shift-mania...

 

[lfmn16]

AI think he mentioned something about making sure he doesn't play more than 4 or 5 notes without a position shift.

I'd be interested to know his reasoning behind this. I've always been taught the opposite - as little movement as possible to keep your playing as smooth as possible. Obviously you need to know how to shift and be proficient at it, but it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Thumb n Fingers]

I'd be interested to know his reasoning behind this. I've always been taught the opposite - as little movement as possible to keep your playing as smooth as possible. Obviously you need to know how to shift and be proficient at it, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Especially if OP is playing a 5 or 6 string as mentioned. The whole point of those (besides the extended extremes) is to cut down on the amount of horizontal movement required and go more vertical.

After 35+ years exclusively on a 4 string, I just made the leap to a 6. Right now, to accomplish exactly what OP mentioned he's chasing, I'm working on 3 octave scales in multiple configurations, especially modal scales, as well as running triad or seventh arpeggios up and down the neck as far as I can go and then going back down in something in a different mode. For example, going up in C Ionian and down in D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian or G Mixolydian or other modal triad or seventh chord spelling. Does this make you a better soloist? Not directly... but familiarization of the entire fingerboard and repetition allows (for me at least) being able to play without having to think through and rationalize every movement. If I'm not (almost) subconsciously 'knowing' exactly where I'm at on the neck, my mind can be a roadblock to getting what I want to express out.

@lordradish , one of the things I get hung up on soloing sometimes is that I fall into the same habits and phrases over and over again. When I'm aware of that happening, I go out of my element and listen to music I normally wouldn't and start to pick out catchy phrases and rhythmic patterns and then build them into what I'm playing. It sort of jump starts my creative process by giving me a new starting point to begin expressions with. Not sure how to spell it out better, but I hope that helps or at least explains how I procedure through things.

 

[teh-slb]

I'd be interested to know his reasoning behind this. I've always been taught the opposite - as little movement as possible to keep your playing as smooth as possible. Obviously you need to know how to shift and be proficient at it, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Coming from a classical guitar background (no running from the past, I was a frustrated guitarist), little movement has been drilled into me from an early age, so I approached the bass guitar that way for a long time. However, I've started playing much more horizontally after meeting my current teacher two years ago. The "reason" is that it, contrary to what I would have thought and expected, my playing just sounds smoother and meatier when I shift up and down the neck as opposed to crossing the strings. On top of that, walking over standards suddenly opened up, as I am not as "constrained" into shapes as I used to be. So playing horizontally made a significant positive difference to my playing, and I don't want to go back to what I used to do.

I realize that personal preference is not a valid reason (so large grains of salt and all that), but I'd encourage anyone to experiment a bit and see what differences (if any) playing more horizontally makes. I know it's very music- and instrument-dependent (I play four strings exclusively), but it might be worth a shot.

Here's my small contribution to the thread: I started with the help of my teacher (not Jim) and this video:

Later I switched it up to two octaves and arpeggios. It takes a bit of getting used to.

 

[Mushroo]

A few tips from the mushroo, in no particular order:

1. I find it's easier to shift accurately, if my left hand fingers are relaxed and close together. Don't try to shift while your fingers are splayed out like crazy spider legs!
2. A really great shifting exercise is to practice some easy rock songs, using only one finger of the left hand. This will force you to shift for every note. For purposes of this exercise, concentrate on playing with good tone and time (not left-hand efficiency).
   
3. For pete's sake, stop practicing scales! Time to break out of your rut.

 

[mrcbass]

I think you fell into the trap about the "money" notes. I get where that came from, but it's a bit over generalized. I'm glad I developed my style before hearing that little ism. I play where it feels right and rarely hang in the standard first position (5 string, so my first position is often on fret 5)

I'm personally not a fan of scales and arpeggios for this kind of work - yes it can be effective if you stay focused on what you're working on, but that stuff drives me to boredom very quickly. Instead, try to find songs that make you move around. Hotel California can make you use a lot of the fretboard if you try. Tiran's work with the Doobie brothers is often very busy and all over the place.

Even if you can't find songs that do wander much, try playing some of your songs in multiple octaves. Play the first verse where you normally, do and then jump up an octave for the next one. Go back and forth. Another option is to playthe same part in different positions. Play your C tracks from the 8th fret on your E string instead of the typical A/3. The trick is just getting comfortable with the neck.

Eventually you'll be able to wander around as you want to. I used to be very scared of moving more than a couple of frets up/down the neck at one time, but now I'm jumping up 7 or more frets for fills with little effort. I really thing the 5 string made this a pretty simple transition for using more neck.

 

[xabicho]

I like the harmonic approach of Joe Hubbard check this out:

 

[lordradish]

How far in are you with the GW master class? The particular thing where he talks about shifting positions frequently is when he is using pentatonics to have them not sound as academic. Otherwise, he uses these micro shifts between the '2nd and 4th finger major shapes' as he calls them to achieve economy within the closest range without large fingerboard shifts. It's a brilliant system. And a really good course. There is a bit in there about shifting positions and when and why. Either way have fun. Gary is pretty funny too in a dry way.

I didn't sign up for the master class, I was watching one of Scott's teaser/promos for it.

 

[lordradish]

could you link the video you speak of?

 

[lordradish]

I'd be interested to know his reasoning behind this. I've always been taught the opposite - as little movement as possible to keep your playing as smooth as possible. Obviously you need to know how to shift and be proficient at it, but it doesn't make sense to me.

I did post the whole video, a few minutes ago.

 

[lordradish]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed at the abundance of advice and approaches, here. I have a lot of things to play around with at practice, tonight, thanks a lot, good people! Keep 'em coming!

 

[cnltb]

Aahh...he who never plays if not penta tonics


Thank you for this link!

 

[cnltb]

Best part; He says 'You shouldn't play this phrase' and the first thing he plays is that exact phrase, reversed.
Funny.

Great player regardless!

 

[InhumanResource]

A few weeks ago, I was watching Gary Willis' video that he did with Scott Devine at Scott's Bass Lessons, and one of the things he showed, when discussing his technique is, when soloing, the importance of shifting hand positions on the neck, horizontally. I think he mentioned something about making sure he doesn't play more than 4 or 5 notes without a position shift.

I sat down and just tried that technique, and it reinforced something I've known for a long time... even after playing 35 years (I'm no slouch, been playing semi-pro for 2 decades), I do tend to be limited, more than anything else, by my lack of good horizontal movements, I think it really limits me, melodically - it keeps me 'bound to the box', so to speak, as well as makes me tend to focus too much on the tonic.

So, I was wondering if any of you had some good advice/technique/exercises for getting better horizontal movement technique. I know about learning scales up and down the neck, I generally have no problem doing that, but it's more fundamental, for me, about re-envisioning the way I approach the fretboard, overall, so I'm looking for something along that lines, not just running scales. I play 5 and 6 string.

I've been stuck for a long time on this, without fully realizing how much. Thanks, in advance.

Help me understand - why do we want to increase the amount of position shifts? Is there a reason or just for the sake of adding shifts?

 

[lordradish]

Help me understand - why do we want to increase the amount of position shifts? Is there a reason or just for the sake of adding shifts?

I don't know, I can't remember if he explains it in the video, but I'd imagine it involves not getting boxed in and opening up one's options. It does make sense to me, considering my issues.

 

[IamGroot]

Help me understand - why do we want to increase the amount of position shifts? Is there a reason or just for the sake of adding shifts?

Good question!

Shifts are a means to an end.
- To get from note A to B which are not reachable from the same position. Multiple shifts are often the case. Major, minor and pentatonic scales have fingering alternates that work better in some instances.
- To play music that requires position shifting to be playable in a reasonable fashion. (i.e. Bach and Charlie Parker)
- To move to a different position to facilitate phrasing
- To move to a different part of the neck with a different timbre .

If you are just playing bass lines, not too much shifting may be required. If you want to play violin,sax and guitar lines, you will need to shift comfortably and often.

The classical bass method is good for some insight into how to shift. I have been working on a fast 16th note Brecker lick that starts low and goes up to the high D and I am still learning alternate shift approaches.

John Pattituce has a book on etudes and scales that is interesting, but it is not the final work, IMHO.

 

[IamGroot]

I like the harmonic approach of Joe Hubbard check this out:

I found this video disappointing if you wanted to learn about sequencing. Google sax videos for better info.

 

[IamGroot]

Coming from a classical guitar background (no running from the past, I was a frustrated guitarist), little movement has been drilled into me from an early age, so I approached the bass guitar that way for a long time. However, I've started playing much more horizontally after meeting my current teacher two years ago. The "reason" is that it, contrary to what I would have thought and expected, my playing just sounds smoother and meatier when I shift up and down the neck as opposed to crossing the strings. On top of that, walking over standards suddenly opened up, as I am not as "constrained" into shapes as I used to be. So playing horizontally made a significant positive difference to my playing, and I don't want to go back to what I used to do.

I realize that personal preference is not a valid reason (so large grains of salt and all that), but I'd encourage anyone to experiment a bit and see what differences (if any) playing more horizontally makes. I know it's very music- and instrument-dependent (I play four strings exclusively), but it might be worth a shot.

Here's my small contribution to the thread: I started with the help of my teacher (not Jim) and this video:

Later I switched it up to two octaves and arpeggios. It takes a bit of getting used to.

Yes! Thanks for posting. This is one of many essential exercises that TBers need to know.

 

[InhumanResource]

Good question!

Shifts are a means to an end.
- To get from note A to B which are not reachable from the same position. Multiple shifts are often the case. Major, minor and pentatonic scales have fingering alternates that work better in some instances.
- To play music that requires position shifting to be playable in a reasonable fashion. (i.e. Bach and Charlie Parker)
- To move to a different position to facilitate phrasing
- To move to a different part of the neck with a different timbre .

If you are just playing bass lines, not too much shifting may be required. If you want to play violin,sax and guitar lines, you will need to shift comfortably and often.

The classical bass method is good for some insight into how to shift. I have been working on a fast 16th note Brecker lick that starts low and goes up to the high D and I am still learning alternate shift approaches.

John Pattituce has a book on etudes and scales that is interesting, but it is not the final work, IMHO.

Gotcha and I agree. The material being played may require it. I usually addressed this by practicing scales and arps 2 octaves up and down on a 4 string, which helped map in positions when reading.

To me it sounded like the advice OP was working with is to shift more without necessarily having a reason, which I did not understand.

 

[lordradish]

To me it sounded like the advice OP was working with is to shift more without necessarily having a reason, which I did not understand.

I guess my reason is to be able to play more colors and have more paint for the melodic paintbrush, so to speak.