Looking for good exercises for horizontal movement

[IamGroot]

Not all 6 string players are lazy....that's a misconception.

Ok, let me state it differently.

If you play a 4 string, you will be doing a lot more shifting for pieces with a wide note range, thereby enhancing your shifting skills, relative to playing a sixer.

 

[Les Fret]

Ok, let me state it differently.

If you play a 4 string, you will be doing a lot more shifting for pieces with a wide note range, thereby enhancing your shifting skills, relative to playing a sixer.

I know what you mean of course but it doesn't have to be. I play six string a lot and do a lot of shifting. It's a bit of a misconception that 6 string players tend to play everything in one position....

 

[tinyd]

One technique to avoid the boxed-in, tonic-based approach is to pick a different position on the neck (e.g. 7th fret) and play over a tune or chord sequence only in that position. This will force you to play inversions and lines that don't start on the root. Ron Carter outlines this approach in his Building Jazz Basslines book - I found it pretty good for making me think differently. It also explains how he manages to play at fast tempos without apparently breaking a sweat

 

[IamGroot]

One technique to avoid the boxed-in, tonic-based approach is to pick a different position on the neck (e.g. 7th fret) and play over a tune or chord sequence only in that position. This will force you to play inversions and lines that don't start on the root. Ron Carter outlines this approach in his Building Jazz Basslines book - I found it pretty good for making me think differently. It also explains how he manages to play at fast tempos without apparently breaking a sweat

Bingo, this is exactly what I do. And Pat Martino moves everything into dorian.

 

[ErikP.Bass]

Bingo, this is exactly what I do. And Pat Martino moves everything into dorian.

What does it mean that he moves everything into Dorian? Playing relative to this pattern/shape as a base? Just trying to understand....

 

[Mushroo]

What does it mean that he moves everything into Dorian? Playing relative to this pattern/shape as a base? Just trying to understand....

Like many jazz musicians, Martino often uses Dorian instead of Natural Minor as his "default" minor scale (when not otherwise specified).

 

[IamGroot]

What does it mean that he moves everything into Dorian? Playing relative to this pattern/shape as a base? Just trying to understand....

Play in root, 3rd, 5th, 7ths:

G7 Dm7 and then G7 an octave up.

G7 Dm7 Fmaj7 G7

 

[Groove Master]

One octave scale on one string then try the arpeggio with the octave

 

[Wasnex]

Like many jazz musicians, Martino often uses Dorian instead of Natural Minor as his "default" minor scale (when not otherwise specified).

In jazz, I believe the min7 chord functions as ii7 more than it functions as i7. If you are playing | ii7 | V | dorian is diatonic.

 

[Mushroo]

In jazz, I believe the min7 chord functions as ii7 more than it functions as i7. If you are playing | ii7 | V | dorian is diatonic.

Agreed.

And as additional information, jazz musicians will also often play Dorian over the i chord in minor keys.

 

[lordradish]

Agreed.

And as additional information, jazz musicians will also often play Dorian over the i chord in minor keys.

I tend to use Dorian a lot more than natural minor.

 

[lordradish]

Not all 6 string players are lazy....that's a misconception.

I would go further, in that if you're taking on the commitment of mastering a 6 string, lazy ain't what that is. I know, first hand.

 

[ErikP.Bass]

I always remember Carol Kaye mentioning that, that a m7 chord in jazz is generally always the ii (a.k.a Dorian)

There are some good shifting options mapped out in Joel DiBartolo’s Serious Electric Bass book and Anthony Wellington’s mode clinic was tremendously eye opening for me. Check them out.

I’ve still got a ton of work to do with this. I love those long linear walking lines that seem like they’re going to run off the board...

 

[Wasnex]

@Mushroo and @IamGroot


I was reading up on harmonizing the minor scale and came up with an interesting tidbit that made me think of you two.

Basically the article says jazz harmony typically come from the natural minor scale except the V7 which of course comes from the harmonic minor scale. An interesting tidbit is the the scale used to play over the i-7 chord is Dorian mode, rather than natural minor. The rationale is because the natural 13th is implied in jazz harmony. The harmonic minor scale is used for the V7 chord and natural minor is used for all other diatonic chords.

Here is the article if you are interested.
Everything You Don't Know About Minor Harmony in Jazz • Jazz Advice

So basically if you see a minor 7th chord, odds are you play Dorian over it. It could be ii-7 in Major or iv-7 in Minor which are both diatonically Dorian. Or it could be i-7 in minor and fall under the rule proposed by the article.

I guess the exceptions would be a vi-7 chord in Major which will be Aeolian, or a ii-7 chord in Jazz minor which will be Dorian b9.

Wish I could keep all this stuff in my head .

 

[IamGroot]

@Mushroo and @IamGroot


I was reading up on harmonizing the minor scale and came up with an interesting tidbit that made me think of you two.

Basically the article says jazz harmony typically come from the natural minor scale except the V7 which of course comes from the harmonic minor scale. An interesting tidbit is the the scale used to play over the i-7 chord is Dorian mode, rather than natural minor. The rationale is because the natural 13th is implied in jazz harmony. The harmonic minor scale is used for the V7 chord and natural minor is used for all other diatonic chords.

Here is the article if you are interested.
Everything You Don't Know About Minor Harmony in Jazz • Jazz Advice

So basically if you see a minor 7th chord, odds are you play Dorian over it. It could be ii-7 in Major or iv-7 in Minor which are both diatonically Dorian. Or it could be i-7 in minor and fall under the rule proposed by the article.

I guess the exceptions would be a vi-7 chord in Major which will be Aeolian, or a ii-7 chord in Jazz minor which will be Dorian b9.

Wish I could keep all this stuff in my head .

Thanks for posting this. I need to read the article on my pc, rather than my tiny phone, but it all sounds right. The b13 is a game changer. One of my erroneous areas was using the b13 vs natural in solos indiscriminately . More careful now.

Will study and get back to you on this.

 

[Mushroo]

@Mushroo and @IamGroot


I was reading up on harmonizing the minor scale and came up with an interesting tidbit that made me think of you two.

Basically the article says jazz harmony typically come from the natural minor scale except the V7 which of course comes from the harmonic minor scale. An interesting tidbit is the the scale used to play over the i-7 chord is Dorian mode, rather than natural minor. The rationale is because the natural 13th is implied in jazz harmony. The harmonic minor scale is used for the V7 chord and natural minor is used for all other diatonic chords.

Here is the article if you are interested.
Everything You Don't Know About Minor Harmony in Jazz • Jazz Advice

So basically if you see a minor 7th chord, odds are you play Dorian over it. It could be ii-7 in Major or iv-7 in Minor which are both diatonically Dorian. Or it could be i-7 in minor and fall under the rule proposed by the article.

I guess the exceptions would be a vi-7 chord in Major which will be Aeolian, or a ii-7 chord in Jazz minor which will be Dorian b9.

Wish I could keep all this stuff in my head .

I was taught a much simpler explanation: That a b13 is avoided because it creates a dissonant interval of a b9th above the perfect 5th.

 

[Green1]

A few weeks ago, I was watching Gary Willis' video that he did with Scott Devine at Scott's Bass Lessons, and one of the things he showed, when discussing his technique is, when soloing, the importance of shifting hand positions on the neck, horizontally. I think he mentioned something about making sure he doesn't play more than 4 or 5 notes without a position shift.

I sat down and just tried that technique, and it reinforced something I've known for a long time... even after playing 35 years (I'm no slouch, been playing semi-pro for 2 decades), I do tend to be limited, more than anything else, by my lack of good horizontal movements, I think it really limits me, melodically - it keeps me 'bound to the box', so to speak, as well as makes me tend to focus too much on the tonic.

So, I was wondering if any of you had some good advice/technique/exercises for getting better horizontal movement technique. I know about learning scales up and down the neck, I generally have no problem doing that, but it's more fundamental, for me, about re-envisioning the way I approach the fretboard, overall, so I'm looking for something along that lines, not just running scales. I play 5 and 6 string.

I've been stuck for a long time on this, without fully realizing how much. Thanks, in advance.

I would check out Janek Gwizdalas All the Better Stuff book as well as Chord Tone Mastery from Joe Hubbard. It will definitely help you with shifts and give you some fresh ideas on approaching scales and chords.

 

[Les Fret]

I would check out Janek Gwizdalas All the Better Stuff book as well as Chord Tone Mastery from Joe Hubbard. It will definitely help you with shifts and give you some fresh ideas on approaching scales and chords.

Are there any samples or screenshots of those books?

 

[IamGroot]

@Mushroo and @IamGroot


I was reading up on harmonizing the minor scale and came up with an interesting tidbit that made me think of you two.

Basically the article says jazz harmony typically come from the natural minor scale except the V7 which of course comes from the harmonic minor scale. An interesting tidbit is the the scale used to play over the i-7 chord is Dorian mode, rather than natural minor. The rationale is because the natural 13th is implied in jazz harmony. The harmonic minor scale is used for the V7 chord and natural minor is used for all other diatonic chords.

Here is the article if you are interested.
Everything You Don't Know About Minor Harmony in Jazz • Jazz Advice

So basically if you see a minor 7th chord, odds are you play Dorian over it. It could be ii-7 in Major or iv-7 in Minor which are both diatonically Dorian. Or it could be i-7 in minor and fall under the rule proposed by the article.

I guess the exceptions would be a vi-7 chord in Major which will be Aeolian, or a ii-7 chord in Jazz minor which will be Dorian b9.

Wish I could keep all this stuff in my head .

The article was a very nice summary on the minor modes and the " why". I agree with what you said above.