Looping bassists...what's your technique

[cosmicevan]

As a long time looper (anyone here remember looper's delight?) and recent devotee to Janek Gwizdala's vlogs, during my binge watching I just made it to #103 (embedded below).



Janek has developed a very unique way to progress music using 2 loopers. I recently converted from an Electrix Repeater setup (4 tracks to loop on where every button and slider is MIDI controllable ) to a Ditto X4. I'm simplifying from rack gear to just a (humongously stupid) pedal board. After discovering Janek's work, I have decided to add another single Ditto to my chain for dump and clear in my X4. This use case of being able to shift the loop to new music is why I was using the Repeater in the first place and why I chose the Ditto X4 when looking to simplify.

I know @john turner runs a somewhat complex, yet unbelievably flexible, and powerful software looper in his chain and it got me wondering what other crazy mofo's we got on this site doing whacky stuff? If you loop...what is your gear? What is your technique and method? What are your key use cases?

For me, I like to lay down a loop and then paint on top of it. At times I like to really develop a multi-layered loop, others it's the groove and then jump on a solo. I also love using a loop with 0% feedback to jam over yourself with only your last layer present. Even in live situations with other musicians, I love creating a small loop w 0% feedback and kicking it into a recording loop/play sequence, or even to just loop a lightweight drone to fill out the sound or drop a reliable groove or backing that I can expand upon. I'm a huge fan of building and shifting though so having the ability to have multiple canvases is paramount for me so I can fade things out and evolve the overall music.

How do you do it? Would love to hear anything you'd care to share as well.

 

[Bob_Ross]

got me wondering what other crazy mofo's we got on this site doing whacky stuff? If you loop...what is your gear? What is your technique and method? What are your key use cases?

Coincidentally, I recently posted this in another TB thread.

Some audio examples are here.

 

[cosmicevan]

Coincidentally, I recently posted this in another TB thread.

Some audio examples are here.

Coincidentally, that post (plus Janek’s vlog) lead me to create this thread. It’s really interesting to see the mad scientist methods we employ to achieve what’s in our heads.

 

[BrianNYC]

Thats some great stuff! I just bought my first to experiment with. A very humble and simple boss RC1. I love it and am going to upgrade to a better unit when i have the $.

You guys are great inspiration, thank you!!

 

[cosmicevan]

Thats some great stuff! I just bought my first to experiment with. A very humble and simple boss RC1. I love it and am going to upgrade to a better unit when i have the $.

You guys are great inspiration, thank you!!

Dope! What is your distortion for the lead part? Sounds great

 

[BrianNYC]

Dope! What is your distortion for the lead part? Sounds great

All you hear is a digitech element XP and the boss looper!!I forget exactly how I crafted the patch for the guitar but it's obviously an octave up and probably some kind of mesa boogie preset on there.
Thank you for the compliment!
Heres one example trying a more bluesy sound

 

[phatbassdood]

Hi, I've just stumbled across this thread after finally getting round to doing some looping myself.
I'd had a Boomerang 3 hanging around for ages, getting very little use, so I sold it and then decided I needed to pull my finger out and do some looping, soooo, I decided to try out Ableton Live 10.
I've never been a fan of using laptops for live use, but tbh I was won over by the automation aspects.
Here's a vid of my first effort. I'm not using clips, instead I have tracks assigned for bass, chords and melody (and a preprogrammed drum track). Each track has 5 looper instruments that are automated to record the appropriate fragments and then play them back in (hopefully) the correct order. Once it gets going, there's no footswitch pressing required.

 

[cosmicevan]

Hi, I've just stumbled across this thread after finally getting round to doing some looping myself.
I'd had a Boomerang 3 hanging around for ages, getting very little use, so I sold it and then decided I needed to pull my finger out and do some looping, soooo, I decided to try out Ableton Live 10.
I've never been a fan of using laptops for live use, but tbh I was won over by the automation aspects.
Here's a vid of my first effort. I'm not using clips, instead I have tracks assigned for bass, chords and melody (and a preprogrammed drum track). Each track has 5 looper instruments that are automated to record the appropriate fragments and then play them back in (hopefully) the correct order. Once it gets going, there's no footswitch pressing required.

Wow, came out great. I have always strayed from softloopers and software in general for live playing since my setup is complex enough without getting computers involved and for me, it's a whole different layer of trouble shooting and potential things to go wrong. I am really loving the simplicity of the Ditto looper series by tc electronic. It would be nice if they could find a way to make the DittoX4 a little smaller but from the perspective of having to think when working with a looper, this one gives great flexibility.

What are you using for the drums? Who needs a band anyway? The only problem is when you find yourself still posting in the band stories forum when you are doing solo looping.

 

[phatbassdood]

Wow, came out great. I have always strayed from softloopers and software in general for live playing since my setup is complex enough without getting computers involved and for me, it's a whole different layer of trouble shooting and potential things to go wrong. I am really loving the simplicity of the Ditto looper series by tc electronic. It would be nice if they could find a way to make the DittoX4 a little smaller but from the perspective of having to think when working with a looper, this one gives great flexibility.

What are you using for the drums? Who needs a band anyway? The only problem is when you find yourself still posting in the band stories forum when you are doing solo looping.

Thanks very much. I hear you regarding simplicity, but I have to compromise those considerations for what I'm wanting to do. I've tried the ditto's before, and had a x4 on my radar until i looked at Ableton. Another benefit for software (for me at least) is not having to bother with footswitch operation too.

Drums are just thrown together in Ableton on a midi track. I need to spend a bit more time on this, but this was a bit of a test run to see if it was viable. I do have a Beatbuddy too, which I use in a duo, which could be an option, but I do like this setup. It's just Bass -> Soundcard -> Laptop -> PA/monitors.

 

[symbolic_acts]

Janek is a great player and a great inspiration
his last solo album was really awesome. Highly recommended.

I've been playing his beautiful looping tune "indian lake" quite often recently while practicing

 

[Cinzel]

I've been doing 2 loopers just like Janek. Normally, one for more textural pads and ambient sounds and the other with the actual song. I also like to do percussion on one and the song on the other, that eliminates the need to loop huge percussion loops.

Lately I've been toying with the idea of getting a DL-4 to incorporate some Minus the Bear style loops and re-triggers. The idea of having a looper with memory (like the RC-3) and have pre-recorded loops also came into my mind lately.

Once you open the box...

 

[cosmicevan]

Due to board size constraints (yeah, my massive PT Pro is now overfilled) I've started to evaluate other options as the Ditto X4 on my board is just massive.

I recently found a great deal on a ditto X2 JAM version (which has the capability of jumping into overdub after recording your loop). There are some functions like the decay knob that I will sorely miss from the X4, but the pedal size just doesn't justify it. I'm also using a regular Ditto looper as the 2nd looper. I love the bouncing from one looper to another and the X4 has loops tied together so I can make a quick 1 bar beat and then a several bar groove over the 2nd loop on the X4 as my main use case. To still have this functionality without the X4, I've picked up a flip flop pedal that I plan to plug both loopers into. The thought being I loop in the first looper in the chain, then loop into the 2nd looper playing live with my loop to build, then flip flop the order of the loopers and clear out the original looper. This way I can layer and layer while still maintaining a small foot print.

Can't wait for everything to arrive so I can test it out!

 

[Grahams Groove]

As a long time looper (anyone here remember looper's delight?) and recent devotee to Janek Gwizdala's vlogs, during my binge watching I just made it to #103 (embedded below).



Janek has developed a very unique way to progress music using 2 loopers. I recently converted from an Electrix Repeater setup (4 tracks to loop on where every button and slider is MIDI controllable ) to a Ditto X4. I'm simplifying from rack gear to just a (humongously stupid) pedal board. After discovering Janek's work, I have decided to add another single Ditto to my chain for dump and clear in my X4. This use case of being able to shift the loop to new music is why I was using the Repeater in the first place and why I chose the Ditto X4 when looking to simplify.

I know @john turner runs a somewhat complex, yet unbelievably flexible, and powerful software looper in his chain and it got me wondering what other crazy mofo's we got on this site doing whacky stuff? If you loop...what is your gear? What is your technique and method? What are your key use cases?

For me, I like to lay down a loop and then paint on top of it. At times I like to really develop a multi-layered loop, others it's the groove and then jump on a solo. I also love using a loop with 0% feedback to jam over yourself with only your last layer present. Even in live situations with other musicians, I love creating a small loop w 0% feedback and kicking it into a recording loop/play sequence, or even to just loop a lightweight drone to fill out the sound or drop a reliable groove or backing that I can expand upon. I'm a huge fan of building and shifting though so having the ability to have multiple canvases is paramount for me so I can fade things out and evolve the overall music.

How do you do it? Would love to hear anything you'd care to share as well.

Cool post - I've been toying with creating loops and developing song ideas on my own, so I'm about to say a lot. First though...

I'm curious what you mean by the bolded part above? Are you using the X4 to create a loop with multiple parts/layers, then engaging the single ditto after to basically boil that down into a single track, and then clearing the X4 to develop more layers while the single ditto continues playing the loop?

My background with looping is that I had a Boss RC-20XL (Loop Station) on recommendation of a bass teacher when I was in college. I used it to just lay down percussive beats and basic chords so I could practice scales, soloing, harmonies, etc. I recently sold that because it felt cumbersome, and I was just not using it. I got a single ditto to maintain the ability to loop and layer. Then I recently bought a Digitech SDRUM, because I get really bored and irritated with the sound of bass-pickup percussion.

The SDRUM has opened a whole new world for creating ideas, melodies, basslines, etc. If you dive in for a few hours it's real easy to get the hang of it. You can save up to 30 or 40 different 'songs' and each of those can include 3 different sections (labeled verse, chorus, bridge). It's fantastic for having good, solid drum beats & changes so you can focus on melodic content. I'm finding myself developing more parts to songs, where I previously would slap out a percussion track and just record single basslines.

My one issue right now is that I can't sync up the SDRUM and Ditto. So what I'm doing is setting up drum parts on the SDRUM, doing a pass or two to get my bass parts solid, and then engaging the ditto after the SDRUM so it's recording the SDRUM and bassline. Once I complete that loop, the Ditto holds the foundation and I turn off the SDRUM. Then I can layer, solo, or just tinker over the top of the ditto. It wouldn't be ideal for live, solo looping, but that's not my purpose. I'm trying to develop song ideas and grooves, and then I'll record them on my comp/DAW once I am happy with the end result. There's lots of room to improve my looping setup and make it more sophisticated, but I'm happy for the time being since I'm no longer filling my phone with 'voice memos' of basslines.

 

[Grahams Groove]

Also, just listening to this video while I work is super inspiring. Can't wait to get home and play around tonight!

 

[Callused Finger]

My one issue right now is that I can't sync up the SDRUM and Ditto. So what I'm doing is setting up drum parts on the SDRUM, doing a pass or two to get my bass parts solid, and then engaging the ditto after the SDRUM so it's recording the SDRUM and bassline. Once I complete that loop, the Ditto holds the foundation and I turn off the SDRUM. Then I can layer, solo, or just tinker over the top of the ditto. It wouldn't be ideal for live, solo looping, but that's not my purpose. I'm trying to develop song ideas and grooves, and then I'll record them on my comp/DAW once I am happy with the end result. There's lots of room to improve my looping setup and make it more sophisticated, but I'm happy for the time being since I'm no longer filling my phone with 'voice memos' of basslines.

The Digitech “XT” loopers will midi with the SDrum which I’ve found to be essential to looping with that particular pedal.

I just wish we could replace the sounds on the sdrum. All my playing is ambient music and most of the sounds in the sdrum unit are not applicable. I’m sure that’s coming with the next model.

 

[Grahams Groove]

The Digitech “XT” loopers will midi with the SDrum which I’ve found to be essential to looping with that particular pedal.

I just wish we could replace the sounds on the sdrum. All my playing is ambient music and most of the sounds in the sdrum unit are not applicable. I’m sure that’s coming with the next model.

Well, Digitech is defunct, so I don’t know that there will be a new version. Kind of a bummer, since this thing is very intuitive and functions really well...

 

[cosmicevan]

I'm curious what you mean by the bolded part above? Are you using the X4 to create a loop with multiple parts/layers, then engaging the single ditto after to basically boil that down into a single track, and then clearing the X4 to develop more layers while the single ditto continues playing the loop?

Precisely. In the past I was using an Electrix Repeater which has 4 separate tracks to work with, so I liked the X4 since it has 2 separate tracks. On the repeater I was able to manipulate the separate tracks, whereas on the X4, you just get the ability to start/stop, overdub/replace, volume on the separate tracks. I always use them together, though the X4 gives you the power to jump from one to the other (really powerful if you do vs/chorus type of music). Janek uses a second looper that he dumps out the first looper onto and can then clear out the first looper to build a bed underneath and then fade out the dumped loops. I started experimenting with this method and LOVE it. I can literally play an hour without a break now morphing my music in and out of different loops and layers with this trick.

The new thing I've added is a flip flop pedal which will allow me to switch the orders of the loopers so I will always have a looper to dump onto. My thought is I can cut the loop, then kick off the other looper and play live over it into the other looper and then clear out the first one and flip the position. This will allow me to not be tied to a loop length as I build upon my own loops as I can take a fraction of a longer loop or add a part that's longer over the top when recording the new loop. Can't wait to try it out!!!

 

[Grahams Groove]

The new thing I've added is a flip flop pedal which will allow me to switch the orders of the loopers so I will always have a looper to dump onto. My thought is I can cut the loop, then kick off the other looper and play live over it into the other looper and then clear out the first one and flip the position. This will allow me to not be tied to a loop length as I build upon my own loops as I can take a fraction of a longer loop or add a part that's longer over the top when recording the new loop. Can't wait to try it out!!!

Killer. Thanks for the info man. Are you using the flip flop from American Loopers?

 

[DanielW]

Just getting into the looping thing, I use an Elektron Octatrack and have experimented a bit with the looper in my H9 as well.

Need to get a proper midi foot controller for the Octatrack though. Right now I'm sitting down, so obviously less of a challenge as far as timing goes. But you can get some far out results with the Octatrack for sure. Play back the recording on another track, loop that track on a third track, et c.

 

[jblock]

I like using delay pedals for looping. I've used a Boss DD-20 in the past a lot. It was great because you could really control the decay of the sound as well as switch to another delay time, with the original delay loop still gracefully decaying. You could keep going back and forth between delay settings with no break in the music at all. Now granted, this was more riff/ambient rather than trying to do songs.