Loud Rehearsal Space: How do you hear your singer?

[Kurtis Marleau]

I apologize if this is on the wrong board. If so please move it.

Here's a bit of a discussion starter. Best way to hear vocals in the rehearsal space while on a budget.

What my group is currently doing is a super cheap (Less than $200) PA system. We got a powered mixer (A Peavey i4b) for free with the powered speaker outputs broken. We picked up a Peavey M3000 power amp for $50 and use the line out on the mixer into the power amp which goes to two Behringer Floor Monitors that we payed $50 each for. We use Shure SM58's for vocal microphones. Now my guitarist and I use a 2x12 and a 2x10 and my drummer plays quite loudly so hearing the vocals without mic feedback has always been a bit of a problem. The keyboard which we also run through the "PA" (If you should call it that) reaches a high enough volume level no problem.

So our drummer of all people recently suggested a headphone rack as opposed to a speaker system. Instead of using full on PA speakers we would figure out a way to hook up the Mixer into a 4-8 way headphone splitter and have everyone listen to what would normally go through the floor monitors on a set of earbuds. If anyone does this what system do you use and what are your thoughts as opposed to using actual PA speakers?

Also I'd love to hear how you guys have your spaces setup.

 

[Jazz Ad]

If you don't hear the vocals, stop playing so loud. There is no other reasonable way.
It may help hearing potential issues in the rest of the band, like conflicting notes between parts of instruments.
Too loud in the rehearsal space also means to loud in any bar to play.

 

[BazzTard]

Drummer, ditch him. It's the best way to be able to hear yourselves.

Barring that, Behringer make a 4 output headphone amp for $40, buy two of them.

 

[Bufalo]

If the speakers have pole sockets, put them up on stands and get them at ear-level.

 

[elgecko]

How about EVERYBODY turn down?

 

[eriky4003]

Another idea is for the singers (or the band) to spring for a better microphones like the Shure Beta 58. Way better microphone with feedback rejection which allows the singers to turn up to be heard. The monitors would need to be on a 40 degree angle from the microphone for the feedback rejection to work its best if the monitors are pointed at the singer. This may also help the singers be heard when you gig.
I don't believe any old earbuds will be required for a band (I could be wrong) if you go down the route of headphone rack. They may be quite expensive if you want to reduce the drums from bleeding in.
Good luck.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Rehearsal level is not performance level. Especially when working on new stuff, you should be able to talk to each other without using microphones.

 

[callofcthulhu]

Expect nothing but responses from out of touch old farts telling you to turn down.

If you're not playing at stage volume, it's not really a rehearsal is it?

I can't imagine practicing with headphones on every time.

If you're not going to be performing live that way, it's not really a rehearsal is it?

If you don't have the money to invest in a real PA, all you can do is get your vocalist standing as far away from the speakers as possible, and facing them. Point the rear of the microphone at the speakers - if they're above you, the mic should be pointed down, if they're on the floor, the mic should be pointing up. You can even have your vocalist "sight" the microphone and make sure the butt of the mic is pointing directly at the speaker. Notch out a bit of the high end on the vocal channel. Try and get most of your vocal volume from the channel gain, not the channel fader or master fader.

If you're doing all that and still getting feedback, you need to get a real PA.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Expect nothing but responses from out of touch old farts telling you to turn down.

If you're not playing at stage volume, it's not really a rehearsal is it?

I can't imagine practicing with headphones on every time.

If you're not going to be performing live that way, it's not really a rehearsal is it?

If you don't have the money to invest in a real PA, all you can do is get your vocalist standing as far away from the speakers as possible, and facing them. Point the rear of the microphone at the speakers - if they're above you, the mic should be pointed down, if they're on the floor, the mic should be pointing up. You can even have your vocalist "sight" the microphone and make sure the butt of the mic is pointing directly at the speaker. Notch out a bit of the high end on the vocal channel. Try and get most of your vocal volume from the channel gain, not the channel fader or master fader.

If you're doing all that and still getting feedback, you need to get a real PA.

Look at videos of big touring bands:

1. Most of them are not rehearsing at stage volume.
2. Stage volume is not that loud. Usually you can see them talking to each other while on stage, even at stadium shows. What does that tell you about stage volume?

The big volume is for the audience, not the performers. Most of them are smarter than that.

 

[lfmn16]

Best way to hear vocals in the rehearsal space while on a budget?

Turn down; it only hurts for a minute!

 

[EastCoastThump]

If you're not going to be performing live that way, it's not really a rehearsal is it?

I disagree, in that there are different kinds of rehearsals; but for the sake of discussion, let's agree on your principle. It follows that your band's instrumentalists ought to regularly practice playing at genre-appropriate volumes relative to vocals. This volume will vary according to the size of the venue and crowd. (Both of which will probably be at their minimums in your rehearsal space. Volume follows.)

If you're doing all that and still getting feedback, you need to get a real PA.

Or better monitoring, anyway. Until you reach the *room's* volume limit before feedback, at which point flatter and higher-gain mics, mixers, amps, and monitors won't help.

 

[fourstringdrums]

I'm primarily a drummer and in one of my last bands, we didn't have a PA. The guitarists/bassist just went through their amps and we, especially me, had to play quiet enough to hear the vocals. A light touch and light sticks were our friends.

 

[callofcthulhu]

I disagree, in that there are different kinds of rehearsals;

In my book, a rehearsal means you're approximating the real deal as closely as possible - if you're not, it's a practice, not a rehearsal.

It follows that your band's instrumentalists ought to regularly practice playing at genre-appropriate volumes relative to vocals. This volume will vary according to the size of the venue and crowd.

And then the king of the unicorns will ride a rainbow to the top of candy drop mountain, and the fairies will marry the leprechauns.

Drums set the volume. They're the loudest acoustic instrument, everyone else turns up or down to match them.

The mook behind the kit is gonna be hitting the snare like his life depends on it, you need to be able to turn vocals up to drown out his cacophony.

 

[callofcthulhu]

Look at videos of big touring bands:

1. Most of them are not rehearsing at stage volume.
2. Stage volume is not that loud. Usually you can see them talking to each other while on stage, even at stadium shows. What does that tell you about stage volume?

The big volume is for the audience, not the performers. Most of them are smarter than that.

What possible bearing could the habits of an arena rock band, equipped with a million dollar studio to practice in, have on 4 amateurs in a closet, hooking up a broken mixer to Behringer monitors?

None whatsoever.

 

[EastCoastThump]

We got a powered mixer (A Peavey i4b) for free with the powered speaker outputs broken. We picked up a Peavey M3000 power amp for $50 and use the line out on the mixer into the power amp which goes to two Behringer Floor Monitors that we payed $50 each for. We use Shure SM58's for vocal microphones. Now my guitarist and I use a 2x12 and a 2x10 and my drummer plays quite loudly so hearing the vocals without mic feedback has always been a bit of a problem. The keyboard which we also run through the "PA" (If you should call it that) reaches a high enough volume level no problem.

So our drummer of all people recently suggested a headphone rack as opposed to a speaker system. Instead of using full on PA speakers we would figure out a way to hook up the Mixer into a 4-8 way headphone splitter and have everyone listen to what would normally go through the floor monitors on a set of earbuds. If anyone does this what system do you use and what are your thoughts as opposed to using actual PA speakers?

• I'd get the keyboard out of the PA, so you can use what little oomph your system offers just for vocals.
• If the singers were on headphones, you could point the monitors for the non-singing musicians and get more gain before feedback.

• Rehearsal headphone systems tend to work best when they allow custom mixes for each player and stereo mixes. (Both qualities let players hear themselves better.) Your Peavey i4b won't allow this, even if you got a headphone amp capable of multiple stereo mixes.
• Even at similar volumes, better tailored instrument tones can help create a clearer mix. (If the keys and guitars have a lot of low end, cut it. Drums need taping to cut excess ring and sympathetic vibrations? Grab some moon gels or paper towels and painter's tape.)
• Unevenly boosted eq will feed back more quickly than will systems run flatter. If you've got the mids and highs jacked on the mixer, try running instead with flat mids and highs, a bass cut, and higher system gain.

Who sings? Does everyone need headphones?

• Loud drummers (and guitarists) wearing loud headphones tend to play at more moderate volumes. I've seen situations where giving a loud drummer or guitarist a headphone mix featuring his instrument helped quiet down the band's overall stage and rehearsal volumes. In your situation, you'd need at least a mixer and a couple mics for the drummer, though. Can't do this with your current gear.
  
• Good points above about placing the monitors in the null points for the mics and getting them up closer to players' ears. (Although, again, you might instead put the singers in headphones, and save the monitors for non-singing players who don't want to use headphones. The catch is that those non-singing players need to be away from the singers's open mics, with monitors close to the player's ears (to reduce the monitor volume).

 

[EastCoastThump]

In my book, a rehearsal means you're approximating the real deal as closely as possible - if you're not, it's a practice, not a rehearsal.

That's a pretty short book.

And then the king of the unicorns will ride a rainbow to the top of candy drop mountain, and the fairies will marry the leprechauns. Drums set the volume. They're the loudest acoustic instrument, everyone else turns up or down to match them. The mook behind the kit is gonna be hitting the snare like his life depends on it, you need to be able to turn vocals up to drown out his cacophony.

Yeah, in situations where the drummer is only capable of playing at one volume, especially in genres that don't call for vocals to ride on top of the mix. But that's hardly the great wide world. In many settings, the level of the vocals dictates the volumes. In others, the venue specifies the overall SPL limit, and if the band's drummer can't play under that level, the band's done for the night.

 

[buldog5151bass]

What possible bearing could the habits of an arena rock band, equipped with a million dollar studio to practice in, have on 4 amateurs in a closet, hooking up a broken mixer to Behringer monitors?

None whatsoever.

Of course it relates. You don't need millions of dollars of equipment. You have a volume knob. Guitars can turn down. The only legitimate gripe I can see is with a metal band with the drums. In that case, get a baffle to put in front of the drums.

There is no excuse for playing at ear-splitting volume.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

If you don't hear the vocals, stop playing so loud. There is no other reasonable way.
It may help hearing potential issues in the rest of the band, like conflicting notes between parts of instruments.
Too loud in the rehearsal space also means to loud in any bar to play.

SO many bands I've worked with just can't play quietly. It's insane.

Grow up and TURN DOWN!!!

 

[Slevage]

Your band will figure it out as it matures. I use to rehearse in a 12 x 14 room---- Marshall 1/2 stack, Acoustic 360, Leslie----PA was a Kasino 100-
it was 1972, and we thought everything was OK.

Now when I rehearse---- all the gear is smaller (though more watts except the guitar amp) and the "PA" is 4-- single 12" wedges driven by 1000 watts. My ears don't hurt at the end of the session.

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

I use a Rane HC6 I think it is.
has a master stereo input, but also has input jacks for each of 6 separate channels.
So all six people can have the master mix and 1 other mix on top of that if your mixer is capable.
I use sub-mix channels to drive the individual inputs, but you can also use an aux out if it has enough output.

works pretty well for me, and yes, I have also noticed that if you give the drummer loud enough headphones, isolation ones work best, then their playing volume comes down a bit.