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Loud vs. Actually Loud vs. Stupid Loud

#21
Edward G. said:
I don't get a band who plays so loud that it expects the audience to wear earplugs and is surprised when the audience doesn't. Wouldn't it be better for everyone if you found the same musical balance at a lower volume, like say, the effective volume level through earplugs? Just wondrin'.

I remember attending a local show a couple of years ago at which the band was so freaking loud that my hearing was a little cottony for months afterwards. I'll be wary of that band forever now. Doesn't seem like a great long-term strategy for building a fan base when you look at it that way.
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i don't expect them to, i am just surprised they don't. they keep coming back so I guess that's all that matters. turning down the volume is not the same as wearing earplugs...there is a physical element to loud volumes that people love. I get the comment "i feel like i've had the s**t kicked out of me, thanks!" all the time.
 
#22
Me & some friends saw Van Halen on their 1984 tour. After the show, we're walking out and suddenly my friend whacks me on the arm. I said "What was that for?" He said "I've been talking to you for a couple of minutes!" Yeah, I damaged my hearing that night. :hmm: I'm more careful nowadays and try to stay away from the stage mains. Thankfully I haven't felt the need for ear plugs.
 
#23
bassboysam said:
i don't expect them to, i am just surprised they don't. they keep coming back so I guess that's all that matters. turning down the volume is not the same as wearing earplugs...there is a physical element to loud volumes that people love. I get the comment "i feel like i've had the s**t kicked out of me, thanks!" all the time.
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IMO, a band that is in balance SOUNDS louder at lower volumes.
 
#25
I saw the Hoodoo Gurus at the Thebby years ago, and they were fing LOUD. (Aussie band content here BTW) so loud that we had to move back from our front stage position.
Good two months later, I saw the Divinyls at the same venue, and their sound was loud, but clear and great. Chrissie Amphlett even tried to kick me (part of her act).
We saw The Angels in the Thebby a year later, after the renos, and it's the best live sound I've heard in my town.
In my band, we don't think loud = better. Then again, we don't play houses where loud is needed.
YMMV

XxxCronks
 
#26
DwaynieAD said:
he's talking about the feeling.

I always wear earplugs, but there is a feeling when its nice and loud. but not stupid loud.
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I agree, to an extent. Who DOESN'T feel good when you really open it up? (It's a little like tooling down the highway at high speed on a motorcycle.) However, there is a cut-off point when the music is too loud to make out everything going on inside of it, whether you are a player or a listener. It's very counter-productive to communicating anything in the music. There has to be some discipline to it.

I've had numerous experiences as a player in which the band was so loud that the only way I knew the actual note I was playing was because I had the music so well memorized, because I definitely couldn't hear it.

If I want to hear random crashing waves of unmodulated sound, I'll go to the ocean, not a bar.
 
#27
Edward G. said:
....
I've had numerous experiences as a player in which the band was so loud that the only way I knew the actual note I was playing was because I had the music so well memorized, because I definitely couldn't hear it.

If I want to hear random crashing waves of unmodulated sound, I'll go to the ocean, not a bar.
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I find that over a certain volume, you feel like you're just flailing and there's no tightness, probably means that at that point my ears are overwhelmed and can't differentiate sounds properly any more.
That takes most of the fun out of playing for me.

If I go to hear a band and they're too loud, I leave no matter how 'good' they may be.
(if they were indeed really good, they wouldn't be too loud)
 
#28
pRS1-12394226w345.jpg
Get one of these and remove the subjectivity. $50 at Radio Shack.
 
#29
My wife and I carry ear plugs. If we have to use them, that is the last set we see--and the band goes on our permanent never watch again list.


. . . .and we tell everyone we know about our experience with that band.


For the record, I also have a SPL meter (http://www.amazon.com/American-Recorder-Technologies-Sound-Pressure/dp/B000I4ZVHU). I don't always have it or use it, but when I have, depending on the mix, "earplug time" usually comes someplace between 95 and 100 dB A weighted.
 
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#32
Also the loud an stupid loud point varies depending on the crowd.

I mean, when a place is packed, you can turn up much higher than when there are less people around.

That is one of my pet hates, when I see a band that is playing way too loud in a partially empty room, if they turned down a bit, and increased volume as the crowd increases, the they would sound much better! (IMO)
 
#33
For a short while in '71-'72 (or thereabouts) Deep Purple was considered to be the loudest band out there. I believe it was because of a single dB reading somewhere, or somesuch.

On Live in Japan, you can hear Gillan asking if we can have his vocals louder in the monitors, and the engineer responds (out of earshot): "Can we have everything louder than everything else?" Gillan chuckles and sends that message over the PA.

Notwithstanding that, do you know that the musicians with the greatest hearing loss (percentage-wise) are classical musicians? I read it somewhere on the internet...

But seriously, I read that somewhere reputable. Having played DB in a symphony orchestra next to the horns, I can buy that.
 
#37
boynamedsuse said:
My wife and I carry ear plugs. If we have to use them, that is the last set we see--and the band goes on our permanent never watch again list.
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Pretty much every rock show I have seen was loud enough to make your ears ring, depending on where you were standing, certainly every "big" show played in an arena. I play in a rock band and I wear earplugs to every rehearsal and show. I think if you're a casual bar patron and occassionally see a rock band play out you can live with the loudness now and then but if you like to go out and watch bands all the time, you need to get a good set of musician earplugs and use them. Hell I've seen bluegrass shows where if you were seated near the PA speakers it sounded too loud.

FretlessMainly said:
Notwithstanding that, do you know that the musicians with the greatest hearing loss (percentage-wise) are classical musicians? I read it somewhere on the internet...
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On the internet? Must be true! LOL But that actually makes sense as horns are loud and most people who play that genre of music don't think to put earplugs in. One stupid loud concert can damage your hearing, but repeated exposure to loud music over years will do it too, and since it's not "rock and roll loud" I can see musicians ignoring the threat.
 
#38
It is very difficult to play a wind instrument with earplugs in because of the build-up of pressure inside the player's head.

Here is another thing to consider... Classical musicians tend to have much longer careers than rock/pop stars. There are classical musicians in their 70s, 80s, and 90s even still performing.

I agree with one of the previous comments about a group that's mixed well being able to be louder through the mains. I'd rather listen to King's X than a fleet of table saws. (Planers are about the loudest woodworking machines that I've used.) But purely by the numbers, damaging levels are damaging levels.
 

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