Double Bass "Loudest" Plywood Bass

[jsf729]

Very general question since setup, string height, strings, etc. have a major effect on volume, but generally speaking does size matter? The larger the body, longer the string length - louder the bass? I have a no name 3/4 ply that is noticeably louder than my other basses- carved or otherwise. Is so, is King, American Standard, or equivalent considered to be the loudest? Asking for a friend whose wife thinks that he already has too many basses......

 

[Sam Dingle]

All things equal I think a bigger bass CAN be louder than the 3/4 version. for example I'd bet my 7/8 shen sb150 is louder than most 3/4 shen sb150. But that depends on setup and such as well. The other question is, do you want it louder for you or for the people in the band or the people listening?

As far as guessing I've always heard american standards are loud plywoods.

 

[LouisF]

A friend of mine has a Lemur ply Liberty Bell and that thing is LOUD and a big 7/8ths

 

[jsf729]

All things equal I think a bigger bass CAN be louder than the 3/4 version. for example I'd bet my 7/8 shen sb150 is louder than most 3/4 shen sb150. But that depends on setup and such as well. The other question is, do you want it louder for you or for the people in the band or the people listening?

As far as guessing I've always heard american standards are loud plywoods.

It would be an all acoustic setting- no drums. No immediate need, just looking ahead if a good opportunity comes up to acquire one. My existing ply is probably borderline. Doesn't come across as a "cannon" in my opinion as some have described other basses. Whoops! I'll pass this info off to my friend....

 

[jsf729]

A friend of mine has a Lemur ply Liberty Bell and that thing is LOUD and a big 7/8ths

Yeah, that's kind of what I am "afraid" off. I'm kind of small and longer string length kind of scares me. Although more than likely the kind of music that I would use it for - by it's very nature- would use a lot of open strings. I played a friend of mine's 7/8 Juzek and it was kind of a struggle.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Strings, and string height are the biggest factors imo. An Englehardt with guts or spiros jacked high will probably be louder than the Am Standard with low action and Corellis. But put the jacked up guts on the Am Standard and boom, that's probably what I'd expect to be the loudest ply setup.

It's always worth having someone else play the bass and hearing what it sounds like away from the driver's seat too. We're often louder than we think..

 

[Sam Dingle]

Strings, and string height are the biggest factors imo. An Englehardt with guts or spiros jacked high will probably be louder than the Am Standard with low action and Corellis. But put the jacked up guts on the Am Standard and boom, that's probably what I'd expect to be the loudest ply setup.

It's always worth having someone else play the bass and hearing what it sounds like away from the driver's seat too. We're often louder than we think..

on my bass my loudest setup was evah weich ADG and a medium E...to the people out front. I couldn't hear a damned thing playing it though. Thats also a small factor. Same with a teachers bass, obligatos sounded great out there but not from the drivers seat.

 

[almal]

I've been learning a lot about this from my bass - a 1934 Herold Jaeger plywood bass. Every bass is different and experimenting can really take you far to get the sound that you're after.

I've tried a variety of strings over the last year. Spirocore weich/mittels were a hit for a while, and evah pirrazi's, but when I returned to the Velvet Blues immediately the volume opened up with less pressure on the top and the bridge raised slightly. My teacher/friend swears by gut strings because they naturally have a higher amplitude (vibrate in a bigger arch) which makes the low frequencies travel further. He has guts an old Kay, which is smaller than my bass and noticeably louder. I'm going to try guts and see if I get even more sound out of Jaeger.

 

[Don Hergert]

There can be a big difference between "louder" and "cutting through". Louder is measurable with a db meter from various locations. Cutting through implies that the timbre quality of the tone is at a frequency that is not obscured by other sounds (ie: other instruments) that are in competition for sound time, and is somewhat subjective based on hearing and emotional response to sound.

Additionally, how an instrument sounds to you as you play it may not be how it sounds to the listening audience.

Experienced DB teachers/mentors are excellent for helping to judge things like this, and to help show us how to judge it ourselves from the playing position.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

The trick isn’t to be loud. The trick is to find an unoccupied space in the frequency stack and fill it.

This has been your moment of Zen.

 

[james condino]

Go to an open jazz jam where they pass around the same bass and play acoustic. You'll see some players who can barely be heard, some that are in the middle of the mix, and then there will always be that one guy who somehow blows the doors off everyone on stage like he's playing through a big Ampeg SVT stack dimed out.

Boom and frequency are honest conversations. I love the sound of my old American Standard with the big boom low end and it has a ton of headroom, but that gets completely lost in a few places here in town with dead rooms where a more modest Kay cuts through much better. I have a friend who gets a huge sound out of the relatively small old Epiphone basses. ALCOA and Pfretzschner aluminum basses don't have the most traditional voice but they have a specific frequency that I've had cut through fantastic when busking on busy streets.

Your location looks like Maryland. Take a weekend visit over to Fretwell bass in Staunton, Virginia. They have one of the best collections of vintage US ply basses in the nation. Travis and his wife are super nice people. You'll be able to play all of the different brands in one afternoon and determine the right one for your style and sound, plus its is a pretty cool small town. Book a gig and you can use the whole thing for a tax writeoff!

 

[jsf729]

Go to an open jazz jam where they pass around the same bass and play acoustic. You'll see some players who can barely be heard, some that are in the middle of the mix, and then there will always be that one guy who somehow blows the doors off everyone on stage like he's playing through a big Ampeg SVT stack dimed out.

Boom and frequency are honest conversations. I love the sound of my old American Standard with the big boom low end and it has a ton of headroom, but that gets completely lost in a few places here in town with dead rooms where a more modest Kay cuts through much better. I have a friend who gets a huge sound out of the relatively small old Epiphone basses. ALCOA and Pfretzschner aluminum basses don't have the most traditional voice but they have a specific frequency that I've had cut through fantastic when busking on busy streets.

Your location looks like Maryland. Take a weekend visit over to Fretwell bass in Staunton, Virginia. They have one of the best collections of vintage US ply basses in the nation. Travis and his wife are super nice people. You'll be able to play all of the different brands in one afternoon and determine the right one for your style and sound, plus its is a pretty cool small town. Book a gig and you can use the whole thing for a tax writeoff!

Been to Jerry's a couple times and bought an early Engle from him. Great people and very cool town. The locals are very friendly and laid back. Ended up selling the Engle when hard times hit, but back in the saddle now. Thanks to all for opening my eyes up to the realization that volume is just one component when playing acoustically.

 

[AGCurry]

To a certain point, size will have more effect on timbre than on volume. Physics dictates that the string length (or for horns, the length of the horn) and vibrating parts of an acoustic instrument must be of a given size in order to produce sounds down to a given frequency. But a smaller instrument may be able to produce enough overtones so that it sounds louder.

 

[james condino]

Just a quick note: Jerry Fretwell retired and sold the business to Travis and his wife. They still retain the historic name and location while continuing a great small town guitar shop vibe under new ownership.

 

[JC Pat]

+1 on what dhergert & KUNGfuSHERIFF are getting at i.e. "cutting through the mix" can be more important than "volume." I have a 3/4 ply with 41.5" string length that is big and loud. I also have a small 3/4 with 40.5" string length that is a bit quieter. I brought them both to practice a couple of times years ago to see what the band thought (bluegrass instrumentation) and to my surprise everyone liked the little ply better. They all agreed it wasn't quite as loud but it cut through the mix much better and was easier for them to hear. I have gone through numerous strings and string heights on both basses over the years but the little bass always cuts through the mix better.

 

[lurk]

The loudest unamplified bass I've ever heard was Dennis Irwin's American Standard which had a longer than normal string length and gut strings with a very high (very very high) action.

 

[Sam Dingle]

The loudest unamplified bass I've ever heard was Dennis Irwin's American Standard which had a longer than normal string length and gut strings with a very high (very very high) action.

I'm not sure thats fair. I remember a story that @Chris Fitzgerald said on here that the loudest bass he's ever heard was Dennis borrowing his bass with spiros on it. So maybe its not in the gear...

 

[Scott Lynch]

Your location looks like Maryland. Take a weekend visit over to Fretwell bass in Staunton, Virginia.

Staunton! What an awesome town. The folks at Fretwell were indeed very nice. In addition to some nice plys there was a carved Shen in stock that I liked quite a bit. This was last summer, though, so their inventory may have changed since then.

 

[Mudfuzz]

A lot of good points here. Plywood basses are weird... Like my bass, I don't know who made it or where it was made.. I got it new in 97 at the thin man in alameda, I had played a lot of basses all over the bay area looking for one and this one was just really loud and deep sounding.. and it was cheap.. a year or so later I took it to Hammond Ashley for repairs due to a real gut tail gut stretching and starting to peel the top.. and the guy that worked on my bass just said "that bass should not sound that good". The bass sizewise is the same as most 3/4 plywood basses, the top is all warpy around the eff hole.. the blocks have knots and look like split firewood, the bass bar is rough sawn, no shaping or sanding.. Some things are just flukes..

I refinished it and carved a new fingerboard and tailpiece about 14-15 years ago...
here a picture cause pictures rock

 

[dylanjohnson]

I'm not sure thats fair. I remember a story that @Chris Fitzgerald said on here that the loudest bass he's ever heard was Dennis borrowing his bass with spiros on it. So maybe its not in the gear...

When I was studying with Dennis, he usually had his American Standard. The strings were super high and he got a HUGE sound out of it as well as any other bass he played. For anyone who could muscle that bass, it was loud, but much of the sound came from him. I remember somewhere on YouTube a player borrowed that bass from Dennis' family and he talks about it in detail. I can't remember who.... Doug Weiss?