Low-cost DIY practice/coffeehouse tweeterless 110 [long]

[Blind owl bass]

All very good points. Personally, there is no way I would be interested in using that driver by itself. But if one just happens to have one lying around, as blind owl does, and is looking for a darker tone (no idea what tone blind owl likes), than for ~$35 worth of parts, it's a potential 'ah-what-the-heck-why-not' project.

also, I dont want a super dark tone. I want the lowest extension I can get from the speaker and cab but I'd also like some highs

 

[AstroSonic]

what about adding a cheap tweeter or mid driver and crossover. can any of you guys point me in the direction of what I would need. I usually prefer speakers to tweeters

Midrange driver: "FaitalPRO 3FE25 3" Professional Full-Range Woofer 4 Ohm" from www.parts-express.com!

Isolation chamber: "Eminence ISO-5 5" Midrange/Midbass Isolation Enclosure" from www.parts-express.com!

Crossover: "Dayton Audio 2k-HPF-4 High Pass Speaker Crossover 2,000 Hz 12 dB/Octave" from www.parts-express.com!

Or, for less money...

Midrange driver (closed back): "Visaton M 10 4" Sealed Back Cone Midrange Driver 8 Ohm" from www.parts-express.com!

Crossover: "Dayton Audio 2.5k-HPF-8 High Pass Speaker Crossover 2,500 Hz 12 dB/Octave" from www.parts-express.com!

 

[AstroSonic]

also, I dont want a super dark tone. I want the lowest extension I can get from the speaker and cab but I'd also like some highs

The BP-102 offers remarkably low extension, but needs 2-3 cf to do it (well worth it IMO). 1 cf is just too small for a 10 inch to have gextension into the deep bass (F3 below 50 Hz) without sacrificing sensitivity (into the mid to upper 80's, like 86 db/w/m).

 

[Blind owl bass]

thank you!!!!!! will def post pics of the project. long winters up here in the adirondacks

 

[Blind owl bass]

The BP-102 offers remarkably low extension, but needs 2-3 cf to do it (well worth it IMO). 1 cf is just too small for a 10 inch to have gextension into the deep bass (F3 below 50 Hz) without sacrificing sensitivity (into the mid to upper 80's, like 86 db/w/m).

can you recommend a 2-3 ft enclosure I can buy for this project?

 

[Blind owl bass]

could this work?

https://www.amazon.com/Ported-Vente...3ft+subwoofer+enclosure&qid=1580789790&sr=8-1

 

[AstroSonic]

could this work?

https://www.amazon.com/Ported-Vente...3ft+subwoofer+enclosure&qid=1580789790&sr=8-1

That will work, but how about this one: Luke-1x12C - Contemporary Empty 12

 

[Redbrangus]

could this work?
https://www.amazon.com/Ported-Vente...3ft+subwoofer+enclosure&qid=1580789790&sr=8-1

While workable, that box is 55lbs empty...and spending $200 on an empty MDF enclosure seems like it's counter the original intent of the design. At least the Seismic box @AstroSonic recommended is cheaper while still being finished out like a speaker cab for a musical instrument.

 

[bassically_eli]

The 10" BassLite that Duke used in the OP is cheaper still at $100, and his recommended enclosure is only $26.

 

[Blind owl bass]

ok so a few weeks ago I gutted an old crappy subwoofer from a home stereo that crapped out. it had a 10 inch speaker so I bought the legend BP that I've mentioned. I had to widen then hole for the speaker because the new speaker was slightly larger and would not sit flush. I then spray foamed the speaker for an airtight seal. I have covered both ports completely, and again sealed all gaps thoroughly with spray foam.

it sounds ok at low to medium volumes but does not like my upright bass much.

the dimensions are 16" tall, 12 wide, 15 deep. the circular port on the front is 4 inch, the port on the back that was created by gutting the electronics is 3 x 6.5

so guys question? think I can modify this box to add a tweeter or mid driver? is this box big enough to use for this project effectively or would it have little extension or just have to use at lower volumes? thanks again for all the help

 

[Blind owl bass]

also the junk speaker in it was only 100w

 

[Redbrangus]

You might start by blocking up the hole the electronics were in. It probably didn't like your bass because the box isn't providing nearly enough loading...with holes that big, it's probably closer to the free-air response of the driver.

 

[bassically_eli]

ok so a few weeks ago I gutted an old crappy subwoofer from a home stereo that crapped out. it had a 10 inch speaker so I bought the legend BP that I've mentioned. I had to widen then hole for the speaker because the new speaker was slightly larger and would not sit flush. I then spray foamed the speaker for an airtight seal. I have covered both ports completely, and again sealed all gaps thoroughly with spray foam.

it sounds ok at low to medium volumes but does not like my upright bass much.

the dimensions are 16" tall, 12 wide, 15 deep. the circular port on the front is 4 inch, the port on the back that was created by gutting the electronics is 3 x 6.5

so guys question? think I can modify this box to add a tweeter or mid driver? is this box big enough to use for this project effectively or would it have little extension or just have to use at lower volumes? thanks again for all the help

Woah, took me a minute to figure out what I was looking at, but that's a down firing sub woofer? That changes things.

 

[Blind owl bass]

You might start by blocking up the hole the electronics were in. It probably didn't like your bass because the box isn't providing nearly enough loading...with holes that big, it's probably closer to the free-air response of the driver.

so I have experimented with going completely sealed, both ports airtight. it sounded good, kind of like a mini ampeg fridge tone. but didnt have much low end. I think maybe underboxed. with the front port open I can hear some "chuffing" sound, with both ports open I get best bass response but still not great. is this a case of over ported and too little space in the box?

 

[Blind owl bass]

Woah, took me a minute to figure out what I was looking at, but that's a down firing sub woofer? That changes things.

yes down firing sub
I have experimented with positions. it sounds ok in the down firing position, sounds best on its side or with the driver up firing.

 

[Blind owl bass]

all in all it sounds ok, have to eq in alot of mids and highs to get it usable, as it is a sub box with no high end reproduction. but my audiokinesis, mesa boogie, and ashdown stacks are pissing off my fiancee so hopefully I can make this little guy work. but honestly i can prob live with it as is when i cut alot of bass on my demeter preamp. it still isn't great for upright bass, but if I'm that quiet I can just play it acoustically.

 

[bassically_eli]

all in all it sounds ok, have to eq in alot of mids and highs to get it usable, as it is a sub box with no high end reproduction. but my audiokinesis, mesa boogie, and ashdown stacks are pissing off my fiancee so hopefully I can make this little guy work. but honestly i can prob live with it as is when i cut alot of bass on my demeter preamp. it still isn't great for upright bass, but if I'm that quiet I can just play it acoustically.

You do still have some interesting options for modifying the cab. Astro's recommendations for adding a mid driver and x-over are very good for a forward firing speaker...if you have room. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite look like you'll have the space on the face of the cabinet beside the woofer, which you would want to make the front of the cab. The problem with downfiring woofers is that they form a horn with the floor, which causes large peaks (resonances) and valleys (cancellation) in the frequency response through the mids. (There's an Acoustic Image white paper somewhere that explains it well. I'll try to find the link later.)

You might be able to make the downfiring woofer work by low passing the woofer pretty low (like 400hz to 800hz?) and then adding a mid driver to the front of the cab, within its own enclosure. You'll need a bigger mid driver than the 3" Faital, though. Maybe the Faital 5fe120 or 6fe100? Not sure. I'm well outside my area of expertise--I'm an aerospace engineer, I just play sound engineer on the internet. The only good reason to really bother with all this is for educational purposes, which is an excellent reason if you ask me.

As far as using the Legend for upright, I wouldn't expect that speaker to ever do that great with an upright. It's got a strong built in voicing: large mid scoop at 500hz and lack of upper mids and highs as mentioned before. You generally want something more neutral and that responds to EQ well for upright.

 

[Redbrangus]

If you want better mids and highs, you'll definitely want to point the 15" forward, not at the floor...I would think that would be self-evident. The box is too small for much low-end response, and, as observed, there isn't enough real estate on the baffle face to accommodate another driver of any sort to address the mid/high shortcomings, so it seems to me that you're at something of an impasse. And this appears to be just a cheezy vinyl-clad, MDF box...how much better do you think you can make it? How much better does it have to be to fulfill the purpose you made it for? Or wouldn't your girlfriend be happier with just a nice tapestry thrown over one of your other, real cabs, rather than this ugly-ass P.O.S.?

 

[Blind owl bass]

If you want better mids and highs, you'll definitely want to point the 15" forward, not at the floor...I would think that would be self-evident. The box is too small for much low-end response, and, as observed, there isn't enough real estate on the baffle face to accommodate another driver of any sort to address the mid/high shortcomings, so it seems to me that you're at something of an impasse. And this appears to be just a cheezy vinyl-clad, MDF box...how much better do you think you can make it? How much better does it have to be to fulfill the purpose you made it for? Or wouldn't your girlfriend be happier with just a nice tapestry thrown over one of your other, real cabs, rather than this ugly-ass P.O.S.?

it's the volume from other cabs my Fiancee doesnt like, she couldnt care less what my gear room looks like.

This is purely a fun project. obviously I am shining a turd here, so to speak.

but I like projects and learning about sound engineering, playing with my soldering gun, and recycling.

 

[Blind owl bass]

You do still have some interesting options for modifying the cab. Astro's recommendations for adding a mid driver and x-over are very good for a forward firing speaker...if you have room. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite look like you'll have the space on the face of the cabinet beside the woofer, which you would want to make the front of the cab. The problem with downfiring woofers is that they form a horn with the floor, which causes large peaks (resonances) and valleys (cancellation) in the frequency response through the mids. (There's an Acoustic Image white paper somewhere that explains it well. I'll try to find the link later.)

You might be able to make the downfiring woofer work by low passing the woofer pretty low (like 400hz to 800hz?) and then adding a mid driver to the front of the cab, within its own enclosure. You'll need a bigger mid driver than the 3" Faital, though. Maybe the Faital 5fe120 or 6fe100? Not sure. I'm well outside my area of expertise--I'm an aerospace engineer, I just play sound engineer on the internet. The only good reason to really bother with all this is for educational purposes, which is an excellent reason if you ask me.

As far as using the Legend for upright, I wouldn't expect that speaker to ever do that great with an upright. It's got a strong built in voicing: large mid scoop at 500hz and lack of upper mids and highs as mentioned before. You generally want something more neutral and that responds to EQ well for upright.

the crossed over down firing driver with a mid speaker mounted in the front sounds like a fun thing to try!