Low-cost DIY practice/coffeehouse tweeterless 110 [long]

[BadExample]

Thanks a lot! Are there any decent alternatives to the HPF3? From what I gathered after researching it for a while today (although no recent information found) it looks like it's not easy to get hold of one in Europe as fdeck wouldn't ship outside US or Canada?

You might also check into your amp and make sure it doesn't have an HPF built in.

 

[Azure Skies]

Sorry I can't be any help there as I build all my own stuff like that but the Broughton HPF or HPF/LPF and the SFX Micro-Thumpinator get good reports.

SFX is UK based, not sure about Broughton.

I'm in Canada, and I ship worldwide.

 

[jwb39]

I currently have a yamaha BBT-110 that's a similar size to this and I would like to add a 8 ohm speaker in (currently 4 ohm for some reason) and was wondering if the Eminence Deltalite II 2510 would be a good fit. The internal dimensions are about 15.4375 W x 11.375 H x 12.8125 D which equates to about 2104.15 in^3 or 1.218 ft^3 which is very comparable to this cab which I read was somewhere around 1.142 ft^3 (something like a 7% increase). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I currently have a yamaha BBT-110 that's a similar size to this and I would like to add a 8 ohm speaker in (currently 4 ohm for some reason) and was wondering if the Eminence Deltalite II 2510 would be a good fit. The internal dimensions are about 15.4375 W x 11.375 H x 12.8125 D which equates to about 2104.15 in^3 or 1.218 ft^3 which is very comparable to this cab which I read was somewhere around 1.142 ft^3 (something like a 7% increase). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Depends on the port.

 

[AstroSonic]

The 2510 can work well in that volume if the cabinet is tuned optimally (like Downunderwonder said). The cab may already be tuned correctly , but usually the tuning has to be changed either by altering the existing port or by replacing it. If you provide dimensions of the existing port, and a description of your tone preferences (fat, punchy, articulate, mid-dominant, etc) and musical genres most often played we can get you headed in the right direction.

 

[BadExample]

^^^^ Da Man!

 

[jwb39]

The 2510 can work well in that volume if the cabinet is tuned optimally (like Downunderwonder said). The cab may already be tuned correctly , but usually the tuning has to be changed either by altering the existing port or by replacing it. If you provide dimensions of the existing port, and a description of your tone preferences (fat, punchy, articulate, mid-dominant, etc) and musical genres most often played we can get you headed in the right direction.

I opened it up and measured the port. It is 14" wide x 9 1/2" deep x 3/4" high. The original speaker is an Eminence 101307. I was able to find the specs to the speaker from a former thread here on talkbass:
Qts .31
Fs 39.4
Re 3.64
Le .52
Vas 84.9
Xmax 4.76
Qms 4.93
Qes .33
SPL 93.8
Pe 225
Bl 9.51
Sd 350.1

I also mismeasured the internal box volume. it's actually more like 1.174 ft^3.

As far as what I play, I guess I consider my tone more of a modern tone. I play a Sire V7 almost always active into a GK MB500 and usually into an Avatar 12/6/1. I like to have an articulate clear rounded tone. Mostly play 90's to newer music and rarely ever play slap or need motown-esque tones. Play half fingers/half pick.

I'm really just looking for a small cab to match up with the avatar and hopefully future fearful 12/6/1 instead of lugging my monster hartke 2.5 XL (65 pounds). I don't expect it to sound the same, but really just looking to add some extra volume in a smaller cab, and since I already have this cab laying around, it seemed like a good fit. Not sure why they didn't make these speakers in 8 ohm as well for these 110s.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I opened it up and measured the port. It is 14" wide x 9 1/2" deep x 3/4" high. The original speaker is an Eminence 101307. I was able to find the specs to the speaker from a former thread here on talkbass:
Qts .31
Fs 39.4
Re 3.64
Le .52
Vas 84.9
Xmax 4.76
Qms 4.93
Qes .33
SPL 93.8
Pe 225
Bl 9.51
Sd 350.1

I also mismeasured the internal box volume. it's actually more like 1.174 ft^3.

As far as what I play, I guess I consider my tone more of a modern tone. I play a Sire V7 almost always active into a GK MB500 and usually into an Avatar 12/6/1. I like to have an articulate clear rounded tone. Mostly play 90's to newer music and rarely ever play slap or need motown-esque tones. Play half fingers/half pick.

I'm really just looking for a small cab to match up with the avatar and hopefully future fearful 12/6/1 instead of lugging my monster hartke 2.5 XL (65 pounds). I don't expect it to sound the same, but really just looking to add some extra volume in a smaller cab, and since I already have this cab laying around, it seemed like a good fit. Not sure why they didn't make these speakers in 8 ohm as well for these 110s.

power handling won't match the fearful, you would do better to go straight to the fearful and add sub if necessary.

 

[jwb39]

power handling won't match the fearful, you would do better to go straight to the fearful and add sub if necessary.

I guess I should have mentioned that I was looking at trying to find a 10" speaker in the 200-250 watts range to match up with the GK head. I already have the Yamaha cabinet, but it's essentially useless given its a 4 ohm cab and can only get so loud on its own. Trying to make it more useful so I can actually take it to gigs/practice without the fear of blowing it up. It's sat in my attic for 2 years.

 

[AstroSonic]

The specs on the Yamaha/Eminence driver are quite respectable for a 10 inch driver. The 2510 will provide an additional 3-5 db (noticeable, but not much more), but only above the bass. Both drivers have about the same excursion limited power handling, so no spl gain in the bass. You may want to consider just selling it and applying the money to achieve your long term goals. There are a few drivers that could get you another db or two, but they are 'fearful' grade drivers. You might as well use such a driver optimally, and get a fEarful. I'll be glad to help out here, but really think you would be better served by more directly addressing your needs. Even if there is a chance that you might have a use for 110 for smaller gigs, the 2510 in the optimally tuned Yamaha cab will most likely only be marginally better than the stock cab.

 

[jwb39]

The specs on the Yamaha/Eminence driver are quite respectable for a 10 inch driver. The 2510 will provide an additional 3-5 db (noticeable, but not much more), but only above the bass. Both drivers have about the same excursion limited power handling, so no spl gain in the bass. You may want to consider just selling it and applying the money to achieve your long term goals. There are a few drivers that could get you another db or two, but they are 'fearful' grade drivers. You might as well use such a driver optimally, and get a fEarful. I'll be glad to help out here, but really think you would be better served by more directly addressing your needs. Even if there is a chance that you might have a use for 110 for smaller gigs, the 2510 in the optimally tuned Yamaha cab will most likely only be marginally better than the stock cab.

Maybe I shouldn't have said fearful because that's going to be a ways away, money pending... Part of my short and long term goals is having a smaller 110 cab. I used to gig with this cab back when I had a 2 ohms amp and really liked the sound, size and modular abilities of having multiple sized cabinets. When I got the GK mb500 and the avatar 12/6/1, the 110 was an afterthought due to its' 4 ohm speaker, but after reading this thread, it really got me gassing for a 110 again. Would it be a better idea to just build the diy cab in this thread?

 

[Downunderwonder]

Maybe I shouldn't have said fearful because that's going to be a ways away, money pending... Part of my short and long term goals is having a smaller 110 cab. I used to gig with this cab back when I had a 2 ohms amp and really liked the sound, size and modular abilities of having multiple sized cabinets. When I got the GK mb500 and the avatar 12/6/1, the 110 was an afterthought due to its' 4 ohm speaker, but after reading this thread, it really got me gassing for a 110 again. Would it be a better idea to just build the diy cab in this thread?

You have a 110. The fact that it's 4 ohm is a red herring. Just don't overdrive it. As Astro said, little extra can be had with another similar driver in a similar cab. If you need volume stick with the Avatar until you build up some funds.

 

[LennyJ]

Just got the second cabinet finished - all I need is plastic corners.

All wood cabinets, with 2510's and stainless grilles.

 

[Blind owl bass]

For under $110 plus shipping, screws, and a bit of wire, you can put together a decent little tweeterless 110 practice/coffeehouse cab.

The speaker you'll be using is the Eminence [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], $74.97

The real cost and labor saver is the enclosure, a Parts Express [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] meant for a car, exquisitely finished in classic ratfur, $28.50

Finally you'll need a decent [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], $1.98, along with a [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] to mount it on, $4.68. No gasket needed; ratfur is self-gasketing.

The total comes to a shade over $110, not counting shipping.

The enclosure is about .9 cubic feet net internal volume with the speaker in place, and the port tunes the box to about 56 Hz (measured, not calculated). This tuning frequency is arguably a bit on the high side for optimum power handling before fartout, but you should be fine on low-E. On low-B you may run into fartout; if so, you can build a simple insert that will reduce the port's cross-sectional area. The port dimensions are at the link provided; if you decrease the width of the port by 4", over its entire 10.25" depth, that will lower the tuning frequency to about 48 Hz which should be fine for low B. High precision isn't required; for example, most "half-inch" plywood these days is actually 12 mm, and you can use a stack consisting of four 12mm plywood boards measuring 4" wide by 10.25" long, painted black, and wrapped on the ends with just enough black electrical tape to give a good friction fit. The stack can be centered in the port or off to one side; the tuning is the same either way, but it looks better centered.

Most 10" woofers will have a somewhat boomy response in that little enclosure, but the Basslite S2010 doesn't. That boomy bass sounds good sometimes, but here's the problem: As you go down the low end of the scale the lowest notes sort of die off. With the Basslite S2010, there is only about 2 dB falloff of that critical first overtone as you go from low E down to low B (with the 48 Hz tuning; the difference is a little greater with the 56 Hz tuning because the low E is louder). So that's why I chose the Basslite S2010.

Use #8 pan-head sheet metal screws, 1" long, to attach the speaker to the cab. Pre-drill 7/64" pilot holes for the screws, using the S2010's 8 screwholes as a template, and kinda hug the outer edge of the holes in the S2010's frame so that you leave lots of "meat" in the wood between the screw and the speaker cut-out. After the pilot holes have been drilled, I recommend using a toothpick to coat the inside of the holes with wood glue; this strengthens the particleboard where it needs it the most (for the screws' threads). Let the glue dry for a couple of hours before adding

On the back of the cabinet is a little push-terminal that can accept bare wires. You might leave that in place, and just cut out an opening for the jack plate with a jigsaw.

If you don't have a jigsaw and/or want to save a few bucks, don't get the jackplate. Instead, you're going to use that input jack as an external adaptor. Solder a couple of speaker wires to it, 18 gauge should be fine. The + wire goes to the the part that contacts the nose of the plug, and the - wire goes to the part that contacts the side of the shaft. Plug your 1/4" plug into the jack, and plug the wires coming off jack into the push-terminals.

So you're going to want to run wires inside the box from the quarter-inch input jack and/or the little push-terminal to the speaker. You want about 18" or so, to give you a little slack to work with when you connect the speaker.

If you want both the push-terminal and quarter-inch jack to be available, solder on two more wires, one connecting the + on the push-terminal to the + on the jack, and the other connecting -to -.

The speaker has push-on type connectors, which you can probably find at an auto parts store. Maybe Radio Shack still carries them; take the speaker with you to make sure you get the right size. Sometimes they start out a little loose, and you can gently close 'em off just a wee bit with pliars. Overdo it, and you can usually pry 'em back open a bit with the tip of your pocketknife. Or, you can just solder the wires to the tabs on the speaker.

But before you install the speaker, I suggest lining the inside of the cab with some 1" open-cell foam. 75% coverage is good. I think Jo Ann Fabric sells open-cell foam cut to the length you specify, and you won't need much. An 18" by 24" piece should be plenty, and you can get the cheapest the sell. Just make sure you haaaaah your breath through it; if not, it's closed-cell foam. Glue or staple in place, your choice, and keep it an inche or two away from the inner opening of the port.

Now connect the wires to the speaker, double-checking that you're going from + to + and - to -. Install the speaker with the screws, connect your amp, and try it out.

If you think the port-area-reduction woodstack might be a good thing, go ahead and experiment with that as well. You can make it permanent with glue and/or screws, but I suggest taping over the nearby ratfur so you don't mess it up with glue during the process.

If you feel so inclined, you can add corners, feet, grill, and a handle. Note that the edges of the enclosure are not rounded-over, so you'll probably want to get corners that have a sharp angle.

Now if you think you might want to add a second cab in order to have a more gig-worthy little rig, one of the cabs will need two input jacks. Wire them in parallel (like I described for the little push-terminals). The reason I don't suggest installing two jacks on both cabs is, the unused jack will be an air leak and you don't want that. Or you can get fancier air-tight connectors, taking your pick from these pages (if you decide to use Parts Express):

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

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Here are the specs you can expect with the port tuning reduced to 48 Hz:

Impedance: 8 ohms
Power handling: 150 watts thermal
Efficiency: 94.7 dB/1 watt, based on Thiele-Small parameters (which is how I think it should be specified)
Low end response: -2 dB at 100 Hz, and -4.5 dB at 62 Hz (first overtone of low B). No peak in bass region. Crank in 2 dB of bass boost, and now you're -2.5 dB at 62 Hz and still don't have any peaking.
Dimensions: 16" tall by 12" wide by 14.5" deep, not counting grill.
Weight: About 21 pounds, before optional hardware (grill, corners, feet, handle).

* * * *

Take a look at the frequency response curve for the S2010:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If I were going to use this speaker in a commercial tweeterless cab, I'd probably want to smoothe the frequency response somewhat. If you'd like for me to design a circuit to do so, let me know in a reply.

Finally, don't ask me to sell you any of this stuff and/or do any assembly. If I were to do that, this post becomes an "ad". I'll make my nickels off the guys who can afford my expensive "boutique" cabs, but will probably never have the economies of scale that would allow me to offer competitively-priced entry-level products. Thus something like this is probably the only way I can get involved with bass players on a tight budget.

could I use an legend bp102-4 in this cab project. have an extra sitting around and want a tiny grab and go cab for practice in my bluegrass band.

 

[Blind owl bass]

Just got the second cabinet finished - all I need is plastic corners.

All wood cabinets, with 2510's and stainless grilles.

View attachment 3198761

how do you like the build. I am thinking of following your build, do you have plans or suggestions?

 

[bassically_eli]

could I use an legend bp102-4 in this cab project. have an extra sitting around and want a tiny grab and go cab for practice in my bluegrass band.

I don't have time to model that speaker right now, but looks like it should work to me, although you should probably lower the port tuning. Looking at the Eminence provided designs (LEGEND BP102-4 - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker), page 13 shows the results for a 0.76 cu. ft. box tuned to 50hz. F3 is 65hz and power handling is 200W, not bad at all for the size and cost. I think the main drawback will be very little upper mids and highs from that speaker in a one-way box.

One more cool thing: if you cut a piece of wood to the right size, than you can use it to plug the port. The BP-104 will work in a sealed box about that size too.

 

[AstroSonic]

The lack of upper midsized and highs for the BP-102 is far from insignificant. No practical amount of EQ will resolve this issue. It has a huge impact on tone (which will be quite dark). OTOH, if that is what you are after, you should be very pleased.

Another major drawback is the low sensitivity. It's over 4 db less sensitive than the recommended driver, the S2010. Ignoring thermal compression, the BP. 102 with 200w would be equaled by the S2010 at 80w input. The difference is actually substantially greater because the S2010 is much more sensitive in the upper mids and highs. Unless those upper mids and highs, and maximum volume are not important to you, the lack of upper mids and highs combined with the relatively low sensitivity are substantial drawbacks to using this driver.

For home practice and small acoustic gigs the BP-102 in around 2 cf (tuned to 40 Hz, -3db@42 Hz), combined with a wide band midrange driver (like the Faital 3FE25) would be a nice cab.

 

[Blind owl bass]

The lack of upper midsized and highs for the BP-102 is far from insignificant. No practical amount of EQ will resolve this issue. It has a huge impact on tone (which will be quite dark). OTOH, if that is what you are after, you should be very pleased.

Another major drawback is the low sensitivity. It's over 4 db less sensitive than the recommended driver, the S2010. Ignoring thermal compression, the BP. 102 with 200w would be equaled by the S2010 at 80w input. The difference is actually substantially greater because the S2010 is much more sensitive in the upper mids and highs. Unless those upper mids and highs, and maximum volume are not important to you, the lack of upper mids and highs combined with the relatively low sensitivity are substantial drawbacks to using this driver.

For home practice and small acoustic gigs the BP-102 in around 2 cf (tuned to 40 Hz, -3db@42 Hz), combined with a wide band midrange driver (like the Faital 3FE25) would be a nice cab.

thank you for the info!

 

[bassically_eli]

The lack of upper midsized and highs for the BP-102 is far from insignificant. No practical amount of EQ will resolve this issue. It has a huge impact on tone (which will be quite dark). OTOH, if that is what you are after, you should be very pleased.

Another major drawback is the low sensitivity. It's over 4 db less sensitive than the recommended driver, the S2010. Ignoring thermal compression, the BP. 102 with 200w would be equaled by the S2010 at 80w input. The difference is actually substantially greater because the S2010 is much more sensitive in the upper mids and highs. Unless those upper mids and highs, and maximum volume are not important to you, the lack of upper mids and highs combined with the relatively low sensitivity are substantial drawbacks to using this driver.

For home practice and small acoustic gigs the BP-102 in around 2 cf (tuned to 40 Hz, -3db@42 Hz), combined with a wide band midrange driver (like the Faital 3FE25) would be a nice cab.

All very good points. Personally, there is no way I would be interested in using that driver by itself. But if one just happens to have one lying around, as blind owl does, and is looking for a darker tone (no idea what tone blind owl likes), than for ~$35 worth of parts, it's a potential 'ah-what-the-heck-why-not' project.

 

[Blind owl bass]

All very good points. Personally, there is no way I would be interested in using that driver by itself. But if one just happens to have one lying around, as blind owl does, and is looking for a darker tone (no idea what tone blind owl likes), than for ~$35 worth of parts, it's a potential 'ah-what-the-heck-why-not' project.

what about adding a cheap tweeter or mid driver and crossover. can any of you guys point me in the direction of what I would need. I usually prefer speakers to tweeters